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In France... (And in french :-) )

Décret n° 2003-485 du 5 juin 2003
relatif au recensement de la population

Article 38
I - Les informations individuelles utilisées durant la phase de collecte sont :

  • 1. Des données de localisation des immeubles ;
  • 2. Des données portant sur les personnes physiques et concernant le nom et les prénoms, la date et le lieu de naissance, le sexe, la nationalité, la situation familiale, le niveau et la nature de la formation, les études, les activités professionnelles, le lieu de résidence, le lieu d'étude ou de travail, la résidence antérieure, les moyens de transport,
les conditions de logement et l'équipement en véhicules automobiles. Le nom et le prénom ne sont pas enregistrés dans le fichier de saisie informatique utilisé pour les besoins du recensement ;
  • 3. Des données portant sur les logements et concernant les caractéristiques de confort et d'occupation ;
  • 4. Des données portant sur les immeubles bâtis et concernant leur année de construction et leurs caractéristiques d'équipement.

http://www.insee.fr/fr/ppp/sommaire/imeths01v.pdf for more informations...

Mostly about the addresses and the buildings (house, etc.).
For physical persons : Name; surname, birth date, birth place, sex, nationality, family status (married single windowed, etc. - no same sex couple-),  studies level, studies branch, profession, residency place, work or study place, precedent residency place, means of transportation, housing conditions and car property...

No religion, no ethnicity, no sexual preferences, no revenues levels...
Confidentiality for a 100 years, with heavy penalties !

The French Nation is one and indivisible... < start anthem here>

"What can I do, What can I write, Against the fall of Night". A.E. Housman

by margouillat (hemidactylus(dot)frenatus(at)wanadoo(dot)fr) on Wed Feb 13th, 2008 at 09:53:54 AM EST
This doesn't prevent sociological surveys (even those conducted by state agencies) from asking about such identity data, but the census cannot.

We have met the enemy, and he is us — Pogo
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Feb 13th, 2008 at 10:21:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Not ethnicity if there is government funding.

Un roi sans divertissement est un homme plein de misères
by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Wed Feb 13th, 2008 at 10:28:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]
How can the government know and use information about the demographics of the population if it doesn't collect it comprehensively through the census? Surveys are only samples and the census should cover as near possible every household.

How can public policies and services be designed if you don't have an in depth understanding of what makes up your population?  Staggering.

Ad astra per aspera

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Wed Feb 13th, 2008 at 12:25:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Why is ethnicity relevant to services the government provides ?

The last time the French government officially gathered ethnicities, the service it provided was trains to Germany...

Oh, and it's not only the census : state researchers aren't supposed to make surveys about ethnicity, at all.

Un roi sans divertissement est un homme plein de misères

by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Wed Feb 13th, 2008 at 01:02:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Thank you... :-)
I was wondering how I could manage a short reply in my rusted english... And gave up ! :-)

"What can I do, What can I write, Against the fall of Night". A.E. Housman
by margouillat (hemidactylus(dot)frenatus(at)wanadoo(dot)fr) on Wed Feb 13th, 2008 at 01:15:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Because different ethnic groups may face different disadvantages in terms of accessing healthcare, education, employment and so on.  

If you have an understanding of what these issues are and you know area by area what the ethnic mix is ie where you have areas of high muslim populations or other immigrant communities or asian or chinese groups etc, then any social problems causing disadvantage and exclusion can be tackled by altering public policies to reflect local populations in an area. ie improving access and service provision to meet the needs of the population rather than assuming one size fits all.

Ad astra per aspera

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Wed Feb 13th, 2008 at 02:13:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]
That is in a community oriented system...! We have a collectivity oriented one (or would like)! There are regional and local differences provisioned, but has nothing to do with ethnicity or religion. It's supposed to be a laic country, still state funds even mosques, because citizens "ask" for it in sufficient numbers (democracy) or because the local mayor thinks it will bring in votes... It could be a bowling center, or a rugby play field, same thing!

That's why I don't believe in a short answer, as it is cultural, deeply rooted (one french revolution with quite a blood bath), and recent history (as linca stated) keeps us with shame when we see a distinctive sign of religion (as a yellow star on a jacket) !

Integration is the word..! Using education, one language, one law, for the benefits of all... It's about the "civitas", not the individual.

I'm not just joking when I state that we do have a problem in Europe (or will have) between these two culture (community vs collectivity).
Till we dwell on the surface of things, everyone agrees... But if you go deeper there are real divergences ! Not so on the goals, but more on the way to reach them !
It works with economics, as well as social welfare, and even with sustainability... Or unions :-)

The point of sites like E.T. is that, those willing can start to listen to others, trying to understand their viewpoints, thinking of what can be done to bring these very different viewpoints together, or at least next one to the other, so that some common goals can be achieved without bad feelings, war or worse... And, of course, that no one is left behind ! :-)

"What can I do, What can I write, Against the fall of Night". A.E. Housman

by margouillat (hemidactylus(dot)frenatus(at)wanadoo(dot)fr) on Wed Feb 13th, 2008 at 03:34:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]
what a great, heartfelt comment!

you summed up perfectly why blogging here feels so good.

;)

~Government budget deficits are not nearly as dangerous as the deficits we have created in vital and complex natural systems.~ Naomi Klein.

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Wed Feb 13th, 2008 at 04:56:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Grazie mille :-)
Didn't you take some sort of vow about E.T. ??? <LOL>

"What can I do, What can I write, Against the fall of Night". A.E. Housman
by margouillat (hemidactylus(dot)frenatus(at)wanadoo(dot)fr) on Wed Feb 13th, 2008 at 05:06:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]
yeah, so?

i didn't know the internet could bite before, know better now, <LOL>

~Government budget deficits are not nearly as dangerous as the deficits we have created in vital and complex natural systems.~ Naomi Klein.

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Wed Feb 13th, 2008 at 06:07:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]
There is always more then one "lou ravi" (lo deliziato maybe ?) in one given location :-)
I think that's what I want to be when I grow up...

"What can I do, What can I write, Against the fall of Night". A.E. Housman
by margouillat (hemidactylus(dot)frenatus(at)wanadoo(dot)fr) on Wed Feb 13th, 2008 at 06:38:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]
had to google those...

lou ravi sounds like village idiot, and there is some truth to that.

just saw a hardtalk interview with desmond morris, zoologist author of 'the naked ape' where he said only humans carry play into adulthood so completely.

~Government budget deficits are not nearly as dangerous as the deficits we have created in vital and complex natural systems.~ Naomi Klein.

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Wed Feb 13th, 2008 at 07:11:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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