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Re "appointment", I don't think further changes should be made to the draft unless they are gross errors. I think in this case, 'appointment' is also valid: even if the Council votes on the President and the Treaty calls the process an 'election', it is still not a democratic mandate but the choice of an institution. Also, while there is no official nomination described in the Treaty, inofficially, we can treat Sarko's putting forward of Bliar as nomination.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Mon Feb 4th, 2008 at 03:46:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I agree. So far, the only modification I would retain is the suppression of the "political persuasion" in the first sentence and its replacement by "convictions".

I will wait a little more before updating for the final final version.

"Dieu se rit des hommes qui se plaignent des conséquences alors qu'ils en chérissent les causes" Jacques-Bénigne Bossuet

by Melanchthon on Mon Feb 4th, 2008 at 03:55:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]
All this stems from translation. The proper Italian translation in this context is "candidatura." There is of course the matter of appointments where a person is nominated to an office such as a federal judge in the States or many bureaucratic offices or prestiguous positions throughout the world.

But the word "candidatura" has a broader meaning, just as in the example of the US primaries. There are many candidates for a party nomination. But a nomination doesn't make a president. A candidate nominated by a party or by a group must go through an electoral process. And if he/she wins I suppose that person is "declared" president.

In many parliamentary governments, the nation's president is elected by parliament, such as in Italy, Israel or Germany. It's a prestigious figure-head role that must garner consensus within parliament. But usually qualifications are minimal. A president can come from all walks of life.

So where did the term "nomination" come up in this context and what exactly are the mechanisms? It's article 9B point 5. I was perplexed because we just don't have the clumsy term "nominazione." Sure, it gets thrown around here either in the original English or the Italianized version but it's a neologism in Italian. Are we to petition against Sarkozy proposing a name and then doing some back-room armbending of other state chief representatives in the Council to put together a qualified majority? Or is it a matter of explaining in simple terms within each state of the Union why Blair is not qualified? Since the word "nomination" has also come up in the English mainstream press (the Sunday Guardian?), I just want to know if it has legal grounds or if it is simply some sort of catch-all word. This I leave to the subtleties of the English language. In Italian it's a dilemma, simply because "la candidatura" does not make a person a "president".

by de Gondi (publiobestia aaaatttthotmaildaughtusual) on Mon Feb 4th, 2008 at 04:28:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Do you have the term "postulare"?

We have met the enemy, and he is us — Pogo
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Feb 4th, 2008 at 04:39:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]
by de Gondi (publiobestia aaaatttthotmaildaughtusual) on Mon Feb 4th, 2008 at 05:31:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]
1 CO richiedere con insistenza, spec. un beneficio, un favore, una carica e sim.

seems to work... In Spanish we also have this meaning:

2a TS dir.can., chiedere di essere ammesso in un ordine religioso | promuovere una causa di beatificazione o di canonizzazione

but figuratively it can be used outside the religious context. Blair se postula como Presidente would be perfectly admissible, which is why I asked.

We have met the enemy, and he is us — Pogo

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Feb 4th, 2008 at 05:34:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]
It would be technically correct but not current usage in Italian.

In light of the Guardian article yesterday that is what Blair is doing, "to ask with insistence to be given the job (on the condition that he gets more powers to do it, of course), etc."

by de Gondi (publiobestia aaaatttthotmaildaughtusual) on Mon Feb 4th, 2008 at 05:45:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]
"la nomina" instead of "la candidatura." I presume therefore that once the Council has elected Pinco Pallino to be President, they walk out to the microphones and say "The Council (in accordance with blahblahblah) nominates Pinco Pallino President of the...."
by de Gondi (publiobestia aaaatttthotmaildaughtusual) on Mon Feb 4th, 2008 at 05:40:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]

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