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I think you're referring to this

The Serpent's Egg
Germany-US (1978): Drama
120 min, Rated R, Color, Available on videocassette

Set in Berlin in 1923, this Ingmar Bergman film, made in English in Munich, is about a Jewish-American trapeze artist (David Carradine) and his sister-in-law (Liv Ullmann), who are entrapped by a mad doctor (Heinz Bennent)--a prophet who dreams of what the Nazis will accomplish in the 30s. The movie, which fills the screen with images of fear and blood, of head-splitting pain and death, and then throws in gothic political theories, is a crackpot tragedy. Everything is strained, insufficient, underfelt. Cinematography by Sven Nykvist.
For a more extended discussion, see Pauline Kael's book When the Lights Go Down.

I don't understand what "20-20 hindsight means." Isn't the attempt to understand history always done with 20-20 hindsight?
Vincent Canby of the New York Times was also bewildered by the film but was hesitant to atack it outright because it was Bergman. He thought that there was a possibility that he didn't understand it. I don't have access to the Time's archives any more so I can't link to it.
I don't know if Bergman's earlier films are available today; if they are perhaps you would like to moderate a discussion on them in autumn.

Hey, Grandma Moses started late!

by LEP (rafifoon@yahoo.com) on Fri Feb 8th, 2008 at 03:21:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I can't find Kael's book to give an exact quote, but what I think she meant was that Bergman had imposed an after-the-fact vision of how it was on the pre-Nazizeit. As well as I can remember The Serpent's Egg, it actually shows a back-lit serpent's egg with the outline of all its adult shape already visible.

I don't any survivors from the Nazi period, but in Russia it isn't hard to find an old grandma who has girlish memories of the Stalin era, and it looked like nothing. In the boondocks, nothing but scarcity and boredom, and in Moscow, the Bolshoi and the Moscow Art Theatre still playing Chekhov.

I think Kael meant that Bergman used 20-20 hindsight to make everything a lot more obvious than it really was, and that's how I saw it, too.

"Dodo" means "doodoo" in Hungarian.

by Bogach Krasavitz (bogachkrasavitz@mail.ru) on Fri Feb 8th, 2008 at 04:36:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I just found this quote from Bergman, which I had not seen before, and which is quite interesting.

"If I had created the city of my dreams, a city that does not exist and never has, and yet manifests itself acutely with smells and loud sounds, if I had created that city, not only would I have been moving in it with total freedom and an absolute sense of belonging but also, more important, I would have brought the audience with me into an alien but secretly familiar world. In The Serpent's Egg, however, I ventured into a Berlin that nobody recognized, not even I."
-- Ingmar Bergman, The Magic Lantern


Hey, Grandma Moses started late!
by LEP (rafifoon@yahoo.com) on Fri Feb 8th, 2008 at 05:01:41 AM EST
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Link

Hey, Grandma Moses started late!
by LEP (rafifoon@yahoo.com) on Fri Feb 8th, 2008 at 05:18:40 AM EST
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I've known several people who survived the Nazi concentration camps but I met only one who was in Germany in the thirties, who was willing to speak about it, and who described "Kristallnacht" to me. From her point of view, as a young Jewish girl, I think the reality was far worse than as depicted in THE SERPENT'S EGG.

Hey, Grandma Moses started late!
by LEP (rafifoon@yahoo.com) on Fri Feb 8th, 2008 at 05:09:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Kristallnacht

The Nazis were elected to power on March 5th 1933, but Hitler did not gain absolute power until he succeeded in passing the Enabling act on March 23rd. Jewish leaders worldwide, in combination with powerful Jewish international financiers immediately launched a boycott of Germany with the express purpose of crippling its already precarious economy, such that the London Daily Express newspaper carried the headline Judea Declares War on Germany - Jews of all the world unite in action the following day (Friday March 24th 1933). This rendered Jews living in Germany 'aliens', and so there began state-sponsored antisemitic persecution which became progressively harsher so that, by 1938, Jews had been almost completely excluded from German social and political life.


You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Fri Feb 8th, 2008 at 06:38:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]
As well as I can remember The Serpent's Egg, it actually shows a back-lit serpent's egg with the outline of all its adult shape already visible.

That's a line spoken by the mad doctor, not an image...

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Fri Feb 8th, 2008 at 06:33:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Vincent Canby of the New York Times was also bewildered by the film but was hesitant to atack it outright because it was Bergman. He thought that there was a possibility that he didn't understand it. I don't have access to the Time's archives any more so I can't link to it.

In this review he doesn't say he doesn't understand it, he 's very clear and damning; he was not so much "bewildered" by it, as very disappointed:

"The Serpent's Egg" is the darkest, most barren Bergman film since "Shame," and the windiest, most banal since "The Touch,"
...

It is Bergman's point that Abel and Manuela, in this week in which they attempt to survive in Berlin, witness the "nesting" of the serpent's egg, the embryo that 10 years later will hatch Hitler, the Nazis, the holocaust, World War II and all the evils we know eventually to have come forth.

The audience, unfortunately, is way ahead of the movie's political forecast, which might not be fatal if Bergman's characters provided any particular insights, or interest. They don't.
...

Mostly, "The Serpent's Egg" is a movie of beautifully photographed weather and handsome period sets and costumes that encase characters who remain as anonymous as the bodies in a morgue. It's dead.

NYT

I have to say I agree with Canby, and Roger Ebert:

Bergman strains for impact, giving us scenes obviously meant to be forewarnings of the Nazi genocide, the death camps, and their witch doctors. He looks emptiness in the face, and it outstares him. He hurls himself at this material, using excesses of style and content we've never seen from him before, but the subject defeats him. Maybe that's what he's admitting at the end, when the narrator remarks that the Carradine character "escaped from his police escort on the way to the train station, disappeared, and was never seen or heard from again." A frustrating ending for a sterile film.

Ebert

The majority of critics listed on Rotten tomatoes also panned it - it got 18% approval.

Despite reservations, having read some negative things about the film when you first suggested it, I dutifully bought the DVD and hoped there might be redeeming things in it. There weren't, it was generally tedious, melodramatic at times and had nothing new or interesting to say about the period. Very sad, since films like 7th Seal and Wild Strawberries are amongst my favourite films. This egg is decidedly off :-)

Fortunately I viewed it first, so I now have the pleasure (and relief) of viewing Cabaret again.


Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner - that I moved to Nice.

by Ted Welch (tedwelch-at-mac-dot-com) on Fri Feb 8th, 2008 at 09:27:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I have located the Vincent Canby review on my hard disk (I forgot it was there) from the New York Times dated January 29,1978. I don't see any of the language that you quote. Do you have a link?

Hey, Grandma Moses started late!
by LEP (rafifoon@yahoo.com) on Fri Feb 8th, 2008 at 10:03:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I included a link at the bottom, "NYT"  which seems to work - and the quotation is from that, Canby's review January 27, 1978.

Full url:
http://movies.nytimes.com/movie/review?res=9F01E3DF1E3EE632A25754C2A9679C946990D6CF

Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner - that I moved to Nice.

by Ted Welch (tedwelch-at-mac-dot-com) on Fri Feb 8th, 2008 at 10:19:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I have e mailed to you a copy of the Canby review which is dated two days after the one you cite. Maybe the NY theatre owner put pressure on the Times to have Canby moderate his views.

Hey, Grandma Moses started late!
by LEP (rafifoon@yahoo.com) on Fri Feb 8th, 2008 at 10:34:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I found your link. The review you link to was written on January 27, 1978. The review I have, which i got from the NY Times archives, was written on January 29,1978. They are not the same. Its in Adobe Acrobat so as soon as I learn to cut and paste in Acrobat I will post some parts here.


Hey, Grandma Moses started late!
by LEP (rafifoon@yahoo.com) on Fri Feb 8th, 2008 at 10:20:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]

How odd, both from Canby ? That was the one that came up from their archives when I did a search. I'd be surprised if he wrote two different reviews only two days apart - the one I linked to on the site is quite clear in its disappointment.

Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner - that I moved to Nice.
by Ted Welch (tedwelch-at-mac-dot-com) on Fri Feb 8th, 2008 at 11:00:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, it doesn't change the fact that you hated the film but it does substantiate the accuracy of my statement about Canby, above.

Hey, Grandma Moses started late!
by LEP (rafifoon@yahoo.com) on Fri Feb 8th, 2008 at 11:06:53 AM EST
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Well, it only substantiates it if Canby changed his mind two day later - and have you got the link ? But it doesn't all just rest on Canby, though he seems to be typical in the review on the NYT site; Ebert had a similar negative view, as I pointed out, and so did most of the critics listed on Rotten Tomatoes.

But, most telling, I would have thought, is that Bergman himself thinks it was a failure, but he values the experience of making it as a "learning experience":

It didn't hit me until much later - The Serpent's Egg was a substantial failure. I made myself immune to the rather tepid reaction from the critics. I remained optimistic, refusing to see the film what it was. After the film release, my life began to calm down; then I painfully realized the serious extent of my failure. Still, I do not regret for a moment making The Serpent's Egg; it was a healthy learning experience.

Ingmar Bergman in Images

http://www.ingmarbergman.se/page.asp?guid=9985262E-C8C2-4851-92F2-4CFDE0D11CFB



Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner - that I moved to Nice.
by Ted Welch (tedwelch-at-mac-dot-com) on Fri Feb 8th, 2008 at 03:20:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Here's the link to the point where you have to pay to see. I used to subscribe to the Times columnists so I got the archives free. When they stopped charging for the columnists I lost the archives.
Link

Hey, Grandma Moses started late!
by LEP (rafifoon@yahoo.com) on Fri Feb 8th, 2008 at 03:56:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I'm not going to pay to read another version of Canby's review - why not quote the bits you think are significantly different from the bits I quoted? But, more importantly, as I said, it doesn't all rest on Canby's review anyway, most other critics panned it too, see Roger Ebert  link, I gave, and the others at Rotten Tomatoes film review site:

http://uk.rottentomatoes.com/m/serpents_egg/?sortby=source&critic=columns

and Bergman's own view - do you think he was wrong that it was a failure ?

Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner - that I moved to Nice.

by Ted Welch (tedwelch-at-mac-dot-com) on Fri Feb 8th, 2008 at 04:13:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Ted Welch:
do you think he was wrong that it was a failure ?

Of course I think he was wrong. that's the whole point of this diary.

Hey, Grandma Moses started late!

by LEP (rafifoon@yahoo.com) on Fri Feb 8th, 2008 at 04:15:44 PM EST
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Well, personally, I'd be more inclined to respect the views of the director, especially if the majority of film critics (including well-informed ones not at all against Bergman's films in general) agree with him.

But of course this isn't science - one cant' prove it's mistaken; if you got something from it, good for you. But in considering its general quality, it seems wise to take into account the film-maker's own opinion, if not the opinions of the majority of film critics.

Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner - that I moved to Nice.

by Ted Welch (tedwelch-at-mac-dot-com) on Fri Feb 8th, 2008 at 04:49:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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