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"The Elites should step down..."

Nobody who would be better at doing their job really wants to do it as far as I see it.

"They too are bought and paid for by corporations, just as American politician are."

Some are, but in general they are not. I'm not at all sure that other people would be much less receptive to big capital offers. They are much more doing what the base wants than you seem to think.

"Having a supra-bureaucracy of leaders that rise up through party structures is not optimal democracy."

I don't know anything better.

"When I look at the EU project..."

Often people's fault. The EU parliament is much more direct responsible to the people and less easy influencable by corporations than the comisson and its bureaucracy. But many people don't want to give power to the parliament, because this would reduce national influence and would be clearly a step towards a superstate EU, which I have doubts that this is what a majority of people want. The EU project has some flaws, but it is a development in the right direction.


Der Amerikaner ist die Orchidee unter den Menschen
Volker Pispers

by Martin (weiser.mensch(at)googlemail.com) on Sun Mar 2nd, 2008 at 08:38:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]
As easy a case can be made about the virtues of America democracy.

The problem is, both systems are corrupted by the powerful.

Europe is not an effective counterbalance for the US.

by Upstate NY on Sun Mar 2nd, 2008 at 09:51:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]
"Europe is not an effective counterbalance for the US."

Absolutely true. But it wasn't designed with the premise to be one. And while some parts of the system should be redesigned (but I actually don't object to a EU superstate which many people do) to make the EU more independent of the US in the future, not everything should be rebuild under the premise to counterbalance the US. It is as well not build to reduce bad Chinese influence in Africa. The EU has no single strongman position who can speak for Europeans, like the US president can for the Americans. Such a position would clearly help to counterbalance, but it would be against the general European way of doing things.
The EU has made war between some of the longest enemies in history impossible, the EU helps countries devasted by the real existing communism to master their situation in a difficult world. The EU saves cultural divergence, and offers a framework for common tasks as environmental protection in an atmosphere where national thinking of 'My country first' still plays a big role (don't take ETers as the common man), with people with different historic experiences and interpretations of it, languages and economies.

I think if liberal Americans hope that the EU will help them in the sense as to influence the US to become more in accordance with their position, they will always be disappointed. Phlegmatic apathy is the best you should hope for, everything else is bonus.

Der Amerikaner ist die Orchidee unter den Menschen
Volker Pispers

by Martin (weiser.mensch(at)googlemail.com) on Sun Mar 2nd, 2008 at 10:35:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Often people's fault. The EU parliament is much more direct responsible to the people and less easy influencable by corporations than the comisson and its bureaucracy. But many people don't want to give power to the parliament, because this would reduce national influence and would be clearly a step towards a superstate EU, which I have doubts that this is what a majority of people want.

I have read this many times as the stated reason why the EU parliament does not have greater power within the EU structure. However, I have not often met people who would object to such things as giving the parliament greater power over appointing the commission or giving it the right to propose legislation. The parliament tends to poll highest of the EU institutions when people are asked about their confidence in the institutions.

I am now leaning towards the conclusion that it is our national politicians who prefer the current system. It gives them ample cover to blame Brussels for unpopular policies while keeping power in their own hands.

A vote for PES is a vote for EPP! A vote for EPP is a vote for PES! Support the coalition, vote EPP-PES in 2009!

by A swedish kind of death on Sun Mar 2nd, 2008 at 02:49:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]
but I wouldn't put it only on the national politicians power hungryness, although it is a factor.
Actually you can judge that probably better than me. In the parliament voting power is more appointed according to population size than in the comission, so in smaller countries it should be an bigger issue than in bigger ones.

Der Amerikaner ist die Orchidee unter den Menschen
Volker Pispers
by Martin (weiser.mensch(at)googlemail.com) on Sun Mar 2nd, 2008 at 02:59:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]
'The parliament tends to poll highest of the EU institutions when people are asked about their confidence in the institutions.'

Maybe that's because the European Parliament is the only EU institution which, to most people, is readily understandable and recognizable. It appears to resemble the workings of a national parliament, which it does to a substantial degree. The members are known to the people of the country they represent, at least somewhat, speak their language, share aspects of their national identity, are directly chosen in elections. You need to follow a year-long course to understand how the rest of the EU works. Hardly anyone understands it, even reasonably informed people. Now there's a president coming of one commission or another. It's so difficult to  comprehend that the 'president' will be different from a national president. You have a parliament, you have a president. So what else does anyone need?

P.S. Obama is a national politician. I can't see him substantially diverging from the US nationalistic-imperialistic approach. Oh, the Elites. The term makes these people, whoever they are, seem like a choir of singing angels. Why don't we finally get down to Marxist earth and just call them the Ruling Class, which they are?

by Quentin on Mon Mar 3rd, 2008 at 06:07:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I  have a distinct hunch that the use of 'elites' to designate an amorphous bunch of wealthy, powerful people, who I would call the ruling class, originated or, at least, first gained common usage in the United Kingdom.
by Quentin on Mon Mar 3rd, 2008 at 06:11:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]

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