Display:
In France, you cant' have a building permit nowadays without validating most of those points AND without provoking segregation.

To take a short example, if you have a ramp for wheelchairs, it cannot be to a lateral entrance... It must be the same as everyone uses... Or it is segregation and you don't have your permit !

These parts are validated by associations of various disabled persons, on plans for the permit, but also at the end of works, as they test inter-phone heights, lifts, signalization, desks, chairs, etc.
For lighting appliances there are rules for color spectrum, frequencies (epilepsy), directness, etc...
Even door bells have (read should have) the names and levels in braille for blind people...

These changes cost millions and weren't done because mostly of the price... Now it's law ! Still, it applies only to new or to refurbished buildings, mostly public ones !

"What can I do, What can I write, Against the fall of Night". A.E. Housman

by margouillat (hemidactylus(dot)frenatus(at)wanadoo(dot)fr) on Thu Mar 13th, 2008 at 01:20:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, on the segregation point, I'm not in a position to comment on behalf of wheelchair users.

However, having spent several years pushing a buggy around, I've seen rather a lot of side entrances.  And back entrances. And dustbins.

And I do see that segregated entrances can be rather demeaning.

by Sassafras on Thu Mar 13th, 2008 at 02:14:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I think there are laws like that in Italy as well. One of the problems with the new Calatrava bridge in Venice is that it has been designed without handicapped access, and lobbying groups are fighting against this. I suppose it makes sense just as a matter of principle, but it does seem a bit silly to fight over access to a bridge that seems pretty useless anyway (Piazzale Roma to the train station) with so many obstacles everywhere else in the city.
by gk (g k quattro due due sette "at" gmail.com) on Thu Mar 13th, 2008 at 02:22:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Rome wasn't built in one day... :-)
So the point is to get all what is "hard built" through those regulations, as even if it seems weird today, those accessible paths will be linked in 50 years (or more)...

But then I'm a partisan of the Segway sort of chair with the wheels that can climb a stair ! Exoskeleton techniques are much better then the wheel chair... And when you take the amount of money spent in regulation, you could "give" one of those to each who needs one !

About 3 to 5 square meters are used in each new apartment built to follow regulations for the wheelchair that's a mean 8 000€ for each flat!

"What can I do, What can I write, Against the fall of Night". A.E. Housman

by margouillat (hemidactylus(dot)frenatus(at)wanadoo(dot)fr) on Thu Mar 13th, 2008 at 02:33:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]
This makes perfect sense in most cities. But in a city where they build a new bridge every century or so, 50 years is a bit optimistic...

Apparently the city offered free use of the vaporetto (I think Line 1 at least is wheelchair-accessible) as a compromise, but was turned down. If the offer had included their use anywhere in the city, I think they were really foolish to turn it down; if the offer was just between Piazzale Roma and the train station, they were probably right, though it might have been  worth trying to negotiate something more generous instead.

by gk (g k quattro due due sette "at" gmail.com) on Thu Mar 13th, 2008 at 02:54:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]
gk:
I suppose it makes sense just as a matter of principle,

Well if you let the builders make an exception for this bridge now, why not the library they're building next week? Even if there's no possibility of anyone with a disability using the  bridge this should be a point over which there should be no possibility of surrender.

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.

by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Fri Mar 14th, 2008 at 04:44:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Right... Besides the point is more about designing ! Designing for diasbilities, and keeping it as a sound design, complete, pleasurable, is harder then the classical "Well, they can walk!" sort of design!
When you enforce such regulations or laws, as a given, the design can get better because of the systematic integration of those constraints (just as gravity), while most times it is, still, felt as a "patching up" an otherwise "so beautiful" design!

The same point goes for "green" design, that, for yet, isn't really seen as "architecture" but more as "painted over" techniques in many cases!
Sustainable schools contests, here, are too often a "collage" of what is supposed to be "green" techniques, as a windmill, plus a wooden facade, plus solar cells, plus, plus, plus... And the final building isn't even well oriented or the wood comes from 2000 km! (In Guadeloupe, the wood comes from Guyana, goes to "Le Havre" (france) then goes back to Guadeloupe...!!!)

Sustainability is more about the people... And that part is too often forgotten, because you need to work with associations or local people, while using the latest fashionable technique will get you in a famed magazine, even if the space isn't really usable and/or re-usable in time for other functions...

This is a wonderful world <music>

"What can I do, What can I write, Against the fall of Night". A.E. Housman

by margouillat (hemidactylus(dot)frenatus(at)wanadoo(dot)fr) on Fri Mar 14th, 2008 at 05:32:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Display:
Login
. Make a new account
. Reset password
Occasional Series