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This is an interesting, but pretty arcane area and XBRL doesn't even scratch the surface.

Common standards are all very well, but unfortunately accountancy takes place within Corporate silo's, and standards all too often get perverted to suit the proprietary systems and software foisted by corporate service providers on their unenthusiastic "partners" (aka clients).

Todd Boyle's  Ledgerism is light years ahead of most other things I have read in terms of accounting in the age of the Internet.

He came from the ground up to the idea of a Shared Transaction Repository whereas I was coming at it from a high level Market 3.0 perspective.

Unfortunately, we both couch our work in language largely inaccessible even to each other (we met in San Francisco a few years ago, and are meeting again in Seattle next month, I hope...), so what chance anyone else has, I don't know!

In plain English what we are both saying is that in a Peer to Peer world, Double Entry book-keeping is both unnecessary

Abolish Double Entry

and a cosmic waste of resources: Todd identified a $150 Billion Waste arising from fragmented and disconnected accounting silo's.

I see it from the point of view of an "Open Corporate" partnership as an optimal enterprise model - since within a partnership there is no "Profit" and no "Loss".

So a partnership's internal accounts could be looked upon as a "shared transaction repository", and I advocate simply extending the partnership/ "Open Corporate" to incorporate other stakeholders, such as suppliers, staff, and customers.

Interesting consequences if you do that: for instance VAT goes out of the window, and in fact the only remaining tax that still applies would be a "Value Transfer Tax".

I know Todd did some web accounting work in Norway during the DotCom boom, but that went "pear-shaped" and he has long since given up trying to convince people, gave up his accountancy and is now a community activist.

IMHO your mate might do well to check out Todd's work.

by ChrisCook (cojockathotmaildotcom) on Sun Mar 16th, 2008 at 08:33:57 AM EST
I knew you'd say that ;-) But as we have discussed many times, we need a very visible open corporate 'in business' that is more efficient, more flexible and more robust, and delivers acceptable returns/rewards/resources to the partners. Then people will see the point. Meanwhile existing organizations will become more transparent with XBRL.

BTW the silos still have to be audited, and it is interesting that all the accounting companies (huge number of them now LLPs, I note!!) have signed up to XBRL.

I talked about your background and ideas with my pal last night, and promised to send him more info - so this is perfect. Thanks.

Said pal is just starting a new official project called e-democracy and promised to send me links - I will forward them to you

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Sun Mar 16th, 2008 at 08:54:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, it's not a question of "either/or".

We have to get "there" from "here" - and XBRL is a step on the way - so it's really interesting that people like your mate are actually beginning to get somewhere...

by ChrisCook (cojockathotmaildotcom) on Sun Mar 16th, 2008 at 09:07:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Agreed. His consultancy is a problem solver for today - but his seminars are much more radical on designing for the future.

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Sun Mar 16th, 2008 at 09:12:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]
A quick visit to the ledgerism site reveals that when you say
This is an interesting, but pretty arcane area and XBRL doesn't even scratch the surface.
you mean
REA is a continuing influence on the electronic commerce standard ebXML, with W.McCarthy actively involved in the standards committee. The competing XBRL GL standard however is at odds with the REA concept, as it closely mimics double-entry book-keeping.
where REA stands for Resources, Events, Agents.

It'd be nice if the battle were only against the right wingers, not half of the left on top of that — François in Paris
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Mar 16th, 2008 at 04:14:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Interesting. But I confess I have difficulty keeping hold of anything to do with data management and organisation let alone taxonomies, ontologies and the rest.

I don't do detail ;-)

This

Uniform Economic Event Notification

is, I think, the key to it.

Essentially a "money message" or "value transfer message".

And then there's Ian Grigg's

Ricardian Contract

Ian being a top class crypto systems guy, among other things.

I can see intuitively that these concepts mesh at the core of a "market operating system" or generic "transaction engine", but I'm damned if I can synthesise them into a coherent conceptual whole.

What I can do is provide a protocol - a legal XML - that gives a framework within which it all comes together legally, and operates globally...

by ChrisCook (cojockathotmaildotcom) on Sun Mar 16th, 2008 at 04:38:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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