Display:
I like this photo but I feel as though I missed an opportunity with it and I can't quite work out what.  Is it the framing, or the colour processing?  I used my 50mm lens because it was inside a fairly dark pub, so the slight grainyness and soft focus is due partly to the shutter speed and a higher ISO.

Photobucket

Ad astra per aspera

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Fri Mar 7th, 2008 at 04:11:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]
While this picture could have a bit more of blue (white balance) because of the tungsten lighting, it isn't that bad :-)
Framing isn't so bad either, as after all, it can felt as an "attitude" (it's all about art :-) )!

The problem I see here is more about including the light appliance. It adds a "hot spot" on DSLRs cameras that are not so good on extreme values (as can be seen here with the posterisation effect) !
No, the real drawback of such a framing with the light appliance is that it fools your metering system (matrix, average, spot ?) by trying to find a mean value between the very dark shirt (dress?) and the very white hot spot !
As it can't, you loose all details in the shadows AND in the hot spot...

Framing without the appliance would have given at f/1.4  and with a "normal" speed an ISO value that would have kept the shadows correctly illuminated and less noise even at a higher ISO...!

Then there is the focus problem with the shallow DoF (what settings for AF do you use ?) that might have been corrected by manual focus... :-)

"What can I do, What can I write, Against the fall of Night". A.E. Housman

by margouillat (hemidactylus(dot)frenatus(at)wanadoo(dot)fr) on Fri Mar 7th, 2008 at 04:55:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes, the light was the issue on that shot.  I was using the 50mm, so no zoom and I wasn't able to adjust my distance due to tables and people in the way so I couldn't easily have got the light out of the frame without then introducing lots of rubbish into the shot, like people's heads or lights to the left of the shot that were on the wall.

I do find with the 50mm that I have more trouble focussing it on AF than with other lenses.  But when I switch to manual focus I always mess it up even if it looks right in the viewfinder.

Ad astra per aspera

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Fri Mar 7th, 2008 at 05:30:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I imagine the auto-focus problem is because you're using it in low-light.
 That thing should snap into focus immediately on a D200.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Fri Mar 7th, 2008 at 05:43:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]
It's the low light that is the issue I think.

Ad astra per aspera
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Fri Mar 7th, 2008 at 05:50:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]

It's a pity you couldn't have got closer, Capa's "If your pictures aren't good enough you weren't close enough" is often true - but then that's a macho war photographer talking :-)

Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner - that I moved to Nice.
by Ted Welch (tedwelch-at-mac-dot-com) on Fri Mar 7th, 2008 at 07:47:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The light in the top corner pulls the eye towards it, away from the subject and is messing up the exposure for the rest of the frame.

The lighting is horrible - mixed tungsten and flourescent as far as I can tell - I can't colour correct is properly.

Why didn't you use a bit of flash? It's a pretty formal portrait.

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Fri Mar 7th, 2008 at 05:00:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Yeah, awful pub lighting.  Getting used to using flash is something I must work on.  It feels instrusive to use flash too much in places like that.

It was actually an opportunity shot.  I was taking a photo of her talking to someone and she saw me and turned around to face the camera.

Ad astra per aspera

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Fri Mar 7th, 2008 at 05:25:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Even though you have a piggy-back flash on that camera, I would suggest a SB 600 (or 800) at the ceiling for a better ambient lighting...

Direct flash goes with harsh shadows (and sharp pictures)!

Anyhow, once you're tagged as the "Gal with the camera" and after a few minutes, indirect flash won't surprise people too much, while direct flash can (and even hurt people with eye problems)!

"What can I do, What can I write, Against the fall of Night". A.E. Housman

by margouillat (hemidactylus(dot)frenatus(at)wanadoo(dot)fr) on Fri Mar 7th, 2008 at 07:27:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]

aDSC_0142SJWlowq-2

I'd suggest this more Capaesque cropping would have been better, the Guinness poster is a bit distracting, and, as it's incomplete, looks accidental. She is the subject but you still have the dark Guinness thing on the wall suggesting a pub.

Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner - that I moved to Nice.

by Ted Welch (tedwelch-at-mac-dot-com) on Fri Mar 7th, 2008 at 07:58:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]
You could well be right, though I was trying to alter her version as little as I could. I'd also feel constrained by quality here - if I had the RAW it would give better quality for the crop after some noise reduciton.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Fri Mar 7th, 2008 at 08:07:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]
This one is in about the same condition then yours, Tungsten light, 50mm f/1.4, 1/30th, 1600 ISO but with less light source directly in the frame (some distant ones though)

While the second one is with spot metering on the shadows with an even light (backlit), 20mm, f/2.8, 1/80th, 180 ISO




"What can I do, What can I write, Against the fall of Night". A.E. Housman

by margouillat (hemidactylus(dot)frenatus(at)wanadoo(dot)fr) on Fri Mar 7th, 2008 at 05:25:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I'd say the first one is in better condition than mine!  Much better colour balance.

Did you focus these on manual?  I've tended to spot meter everything, along with the focus, and haven't experimented enough with the different metering settings on the camera.

I seem to be able to improve one aspect of technique at a time, then I look back later on and realise that I'd ruined a shot because I hadn't exposed it correctly or thought about increasing the aperture or changing the ISO...

Ad astra per aspera

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Fri Mar 7th, 2008 at 05:37:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The problem with the colour on yours is that it's impossible to balance properly: tungsten is orange, fluorescent is green, and they've got both.

Spot metering is not what I would have chosen for a shot like that. What did you meter off? Or do you mean the matrix metering?

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Fri Mar 7th, 2008 at 05:42:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I don't think I know what I mean!
The in viewfinder thing.  I've had it set on the single dot and I'm now confusing myself between the focussing and the metering.  

Ad astra per aspera
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Fri Mar 7th, 2008 at 05:48:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Single dot is spot. Why set it on that? Are you actually using it as spot meter?
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Fri Mar 7th, 2008 at 06:10:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]
For some reason I set it to that ages ago and have never read up on metering enough to know better and think about changing it to suit different scenes.

Any useful summary for me to bear in mind on metering?

Ad astra per aspera

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Fri Mar 7th, 2008 at 06:22:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Spot metering bad unless you're working hard. Matrix metering good, except when it isn't.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Fri Mar 7th, 2008 at 06:23:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]
What does working hard involve?
And when isn't matrix metering good?

Ad astra per aspera
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Fri Mar 7th, 2008 at 06:25:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Working hard is when the lighting conditions are too difficult for the matrix metering to handle or when you have  a definite part of the picture you know you want to come up mid-toned.

Matrix metering isn't good when its voodoo guesses wrong - back-lighting is a classic, though with D-lenses (that tell it where they're focused) it can do some magic.  Lots of light or dark areas in the frame can confuse it too. Snow, sand, etc.

One recent example that occurs to me is shooting a small stained glass window from inside the church.

x

The camera decided it was really dark because the window only took up a relatvely small amount of the frame, while I really wanted to expose for the light outside the window, which made the interior stone black but showed the colours of the window nicely. In that case I spot metered on the window.

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Fri Mar 7th, 2008 at 06:34:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]
For comparison, this is under the same lighting conditions, pretty much:

x

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Fri Mar 7th, 2008 at 06:38:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Colman:
when its voodoo guesses wrong

Exactly... :-)

"What can I do, What can I write, Against the fall of Night". A.E. Housman

by margouillat (hemidactylus(dot)frenatus(at)wanadoo(dot)fr) on Fri Mar 7th, 2008 at 06:53:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I shoot always in "raw" (NEF) as I find jpeg's near to impossible to correct properly !
As Colman stated, problems are with mixed light temperatures (on film as with digital). Your eyes adapt and you don't see (usually) the mess it can create, thus the studio work in controlled light :-)

I manual focused because it was a 50mm Nikkor-S that is about thirty years old :-) The second shot was with AF (20/2.8 AFD).

The first picture isn't really sharp (and the subject was speaking so his chin is more blurred then the rest), but acceptable in small sizes, while the second picture can be blown up at decent sizes !

On the D200, matrix metering is quite good for most cases (apart when you have a direct light in the frame), because I started shooting a long time ago I'm more familiar with centered average metering, as I know what I will get.
I usually keep spot metering for peculiar cases, as in the second picture with the big white diffusing background...

Don't worry about improving one aspect at a time, it'll soak in :-)
Apart from very specific shoots (macro, astronomy, stills, etc.) you shouldn't have to "think" too much, meaning the basics (composition, settings, etc.) should be more on the instinctive side... But to get there, most of us ruined kilometres of good film :-)

"What can I do, What can I write, Against the fall of Night". A.E. Housman

by margouillat (hemidactylus(dot)frenatus(at)wanadoo(dot)fr) on Fri Mar 7th, 2008 at 06:09:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes, I'd generally leave it on matrix unless I know it's going to get it wrong - though I watch the settings it chooses. Modern matrix metering is pretty smart.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Fri Mar 7th, 2008 at 06:19:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The second subject reminds me of black and white photo subjects!
by The3rdColumn on Fri Mar 7th, 2008 at 06:08:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]
That's the usual joke with him... ( a good friend still)!
He's Scottish and a true dandy of the Brummell's sort ! Great wits and acute intelligence, but always seems to get out of a 18th century movie :-)

"What can I do, What can I write, Against the fall of Night". A.E. Housman
by margouillat (hemidactylus(dot)frenatus(at)wanadoo(dot)fr) on Fri Mar 7th, 2008 at 06:19:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I think the problem here is that there's not enough front lighting and rather odd backlighting, so the face is partly in shadow.

I've brightened it, Color Balanced and sharpened here a little, which brings it out slightly, but flesh tones are always going to look a bit odd with the vivid colour mix in the background and that Pub Lamp of God backlight effect.

This crop is possibly a bit sterile because it's lost the hands, but it highlights the thirds, and also removes the chairs which are a bit cluttery.

Anyway - it's a different take on the scene, so I thought I'd try it this way to see how it worked out.

Interesting blue eyes now too. (The spice...must flow...)

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Fri Mar 7th, 2008 at 02:40:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Very well done, TBG.

Hey, Grandma Moses started late!
by LEP (rafifoon@yahoo.com) on Fri Mar 7th, 2008 at 03:16:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I like that crop. And the Dune reference.  

I want to put together an exhibition for my 30th birthday, towards the end of the year.  The idea is that I get lots of friends and colleagues together who I haven't seen in ages, celebrate my birthday, fundraise for my charity with the event and give myself a challenge for the year to produce an exhibition.

But I know I'm not good enough yet. I also have no idea what theme to have, nor how to put an exhibition together.

Any advice is welcome!

tzt as well, how do you put your exibitions together?

Ad astra per aspera

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Sat Mar 8th, 2008 at 03:22:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I've never had a real exhibition yet so I don't know. :-)  What I've done with schoolwork exhibitions is a) choose a theme/themes, b) arrange the work thematically c) select and reselect and ask other people's opinions on what to choose, what to leave out d) get familiar with the exhibition space and plan the use of the space.

But I'm a total newbie.

You have a normal feeling for a moment, then it passes. --More--

by tzt (tztmail at gmail dot com) on Sat Mar 8th, 2008 at 08:25:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Thanks that's really helpful - you are less of a newbie than I am!  I am totally stuck on themes at the moment.

Ad astra per aspera
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Sat Mar 8th, 2008 at 03:09:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Display:
Login
. Make a new account
. Reset password
Occasional Series