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Vestas and the Danish Wind Industry were definitely funded by Wall St in the earliest years in the US.  In fact, it was primarily in response to tax credit partnerships set up by both private firms and major investment house, which provided the lion's share of funding for the US market, that Vestas, Nordex, Micon, Bonus (now Siemens) and the rest.

Yes, they were also helped by Danish installations, also funded by tax credits, but the Danish credits were also used to fund US projects.

Wall St money did tend to emphasize US manufacturers, but was by no means limited to them.

It is most certainly "pirate" money today, based in the global financial centers, which funds the mature wind industry.  In the US, the lead venture funder in windpower is Goldman Sachs, while they, Lehman, Morgan and many banks fund the projects and companies.

Particularly when discussion Anglo Disease, we see the effects of pirate vs. producer capitalism, but the logic breaks down when referring to windpower.

"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Anaïs Nin

by Crazy Horse on Mon Mar 10th, 2008 at 09:09:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Should read:  "that Vestas, Nordex, Micon, Bonus (now Siemens) and the rest" were able to get their feet wet and then increase capacity.  (When the tax crdits dried up and Wall St left the industry, many of the Danish firms went out of business, or suffered painful reorganization.)

"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Anaïs Nin
by Crazy Horse on Mon Mar 10th, 2008 at 09:14:05 AM EST
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Particularly when discussion Anglo Disease, we see the effects of pirate vs. producer capitalism, but the logic breaks down when referring to windpower.

Or is it that the sector is still in growth/early maturation and there isn't enough to raid yet?

by Francois in Paris on Mon Mar 10th, 2008 at 12:37:43 PM EST
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You know crazy horse, it is damn difficult to argue with you about the early days of windpower because you were there.

But....I believe you grossly underestimate the investment it requires to get to the point where something is actually offered for sale.  Funding an enterprise when there is already a working prototype and a sales brochure may SEEM like brave investment strategy, but compared to the folks who got the project to that place, such investment is virtually irrelevant.

Or perhaps you could explain to the rest of us exactly WHY there is no USA version of Vestas.  There are no parts of wind turbines we could not have manufactured, but aside from some pathetic attempts, it never happened.

"Remember the I35W bridge--who needs terrorists when there are Republicans"

by techno (reply@elegant-technology.com) on Mon Mar 10th, 2008 at 01:06:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Oh, you can argue with me about anything you want after posting those beautiful photos of your church restoration.

You make a good point about the Danish farmers and machinists who actually built the early turbines.  They did bootstrap themselves into becoming companies.  Vestas was already a company, making something for agriculture when I visited the factory in Lem back in 1879, or was it 1979, can't quite remember.

btw, Here's a site on windpower's history put together by an old friend of mine, the builder of the blades for all those initial Danish machines.

As to your 2nd question, part of the reason the US never developed viable manufacturers can be laid at the hands of the government research program.  Large machine contracts were awarded to defense industry companies who didn't give a shit about windpower.  The small turbine companies scuffled along as best they could.  But even the commercial turbines at the same scale as Vestas in those days were a bit higher technology, and were perhaps too far ahead of the curve.  As we all know, the robust, primitive technology of the Danes won out.

It took some time before NREL (then SERI) got with the program, but by then it was too late.  Another factor was the continual boom and bust cycles, which did not allow for long term investment.  Look at Zond/Enron, who never built a reliably working machine.

"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Anaïs Nin

by Crazy Horse on Mon Mar 10th, 2008 at 02:02:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Thanks for the attaboy, crazy horse!

In order to build something as difficult as a reliable wind turbine, two things are required--a compelling vision and patient capital.

Pirate capitalism has neither.  Good producers have both.

Wind turbines may not be the best example of these phenomena but it is one I thought appropriate for this site.

"Remember the I35W bridge--who needs terrorists when there are Republicans"

by techno (reply@elegant-technology.com) on Mon Mar 10th, 2008 at 03:55:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yeah, there are many examples of your point about pirate capitalism, but windpower doesn't quite fit.

Hope you enjoyed Eric's windpower site (above comment).  I think it's gorgeous and a great template of the industry.  Wish lot's of people would go there and check it out.  He's the perfect example of the antidote for pirate capitalism.  (But then some of us did do it for the greater good, and not because there was so much money to be made... which really hurt the industry.)

"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Anaïs Nin

by Crazy Horse on Mon Mar 10th, 2008 at 04:51:33 PM EST
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I believe that you are forgetting the fact that the Danish government had a deliberate policy of supporting research and development of wind technology. No small part of the Danish wind turbine R&D was done at DTU and Risø - both of which are government institutions.

Without this kind of government-funded research programmes, it is highly unlikely that the Danish wind industry would have ever gotten off the ground. And considering the sway that the drill-and-burn lobby holds over Washington in general and the Repugs in particular, I seriously doubt that such a programme would have survived past the first US Congress committee.

- Jake

If you only spend 20 minutes of the rest of your life on economics, go spend them here.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 03:28:15 AM EST
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is that US support mechanisms for wind in the early 80s were not provide good incentives - all the money was upfront, so investors had an all too strong motivation to put up machines that would work initially but did not really care about how they fared in the long run. They were in for a quick buck.

Also, of course, the fact that support has been yanked away, and has generally been inconsistent (sse still today the on/off nature of the PTC mechanism and the yearly uncertainty as to its renewal).

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 04:55:56 AM EST
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