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I've been tangentially involved in a project to move 500m³/h 450 metres with a 1-foot-wide pipe and I can only imagine the technical difficulties (and the cost) involved in piping water from Arles (say) to Barcelona.

New York Times: Water Scarce, Barcelona Plans Big Pipe To Tap Rhone

The pipeline to Barcelona would tap about 1 percent of the Rhone's normal volume. The pipe, eight feet in diameter, would start above Montpellier, reach the Camargue delta, run along the French coast and pierce the rocks of the Pyrenees. The cost has been estimated at $1 billion, depending on whether the pipeline will also be used to provide water to French towns along the way, such as Beziers, Carcassonne and Narbonne, which occasionally have water problems. The report estimates that the construction cost can be earned back in 25 years.


It'd be nice if the battle were only against the right wingers, not half of the left on top of that — François in Paris
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Apr 1st, 2008 at 05:52:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Bloody madness.

Stop wasting so much water. Stop trying to make a desert green. If you want rain, move to Galicia

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue Apr 1st, 2008 at 09:03:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The problem with Spain is how successful it's been at using its water for irrigation - now we're reaching the hard limits of the population carrying capacity of the water we have.

Oh, getting rid of all the British, German and Dutch tourists and retirees and their golf courses would help, too.

It'd be nice if the battle were only against the right wingers, not half of the left on top of that — François in Paris

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Apr 1st, 2008 at 09:06:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Especially the golf-courses.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Tue Apr 1st, 2008 at 09:08:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Why do you think the government is cracking down on the illegal development along the Mediterranean coast and threatening to bulldoze thousands of homes?

If local authorities only allowed development that they know they have water for, none of this would be happening.

It'd be nice if the battle were only against the right wingers, not half of the left on top of that — François in Paris

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Apr 1st, 2008 at 09:13:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Isn't sustainable planning a sin or something?
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Tue Apr 1st, 2008 at 09:14:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]
There's an illegal town of 40 thousand people in the outskirts of Madrid.

Palestina a 20 minutos de Sol - Público.es Palestine 20 minutes away from [Madrid's central square] Sol - Público.es
40.000 habitantes ilegales
40 thousand illegal inhabitants.
La Cañada Real Galiana es un camino de tierra de 15 kilómetros de longitud, hay más de 2.000 edificaciones y 40.000 habitantes, 15.000 menores. Muchas casas son chabolas, pero también hay chalets, algunos hasta con piscina. Todas son ilegales, aunque la mayoría paga el Impuesto de Bienes Inmuebles al Ayuntamiento que ha permitido la construcción de estas viviendas durante más de 40 años. Desde hace unos años una de las áreas del poblado se han convertido en un foco de venta de droga de España y el mayor de Madrid. The Galiana Royal Creek is a dirt road 15 kilometres long, there are more than 2,000 buildings and 40 thousand people, 15 thousand of them minors. Many houses are shacks but there are also detached houses, some of them with a swimming pool. They are all illegal, though most of them pay the real estate tax to the local authority which has allowed the construction of these homes over more than 40 years. For the last few years one of the areas of the settlement has become a focal point for drug dealing in Spain, and the largest in Madrid.


It'd be nice if the battle were only against the right wingers, not half of the left on top of that — François in Paris
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Apr 1st, 2008 at 09:23:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]
It so happens I'm reading the summary of the Attali report on how to get France back on the road to growth blah, and it has the predictable rundown of the wonderful things other European countries have been doing to dynamise etc and that France has of course miserably failed to do.

After saying the UK has undertaken long-term reform of its school and health systems (!) and boosted its financial industry (!!!), it says this about Spain:

L'Espagne a oeuvré pour l'accès de tous à la propriété du logement, dans une économie en quasi plein-emploi.Spain has worked towards access for all to home ownership, in a quasi full-employment economy.

They must have known about the Galiana Royal Creek...

When locusts move on, they leave nothing behind

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue Apr 1st, 2008 at 09:36:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Nah, come on. They've been allowing this to happen for years. The problem is that the spanish planning laws are a mess.

Most places in the world, if you get official planning permission, you have permission. A local office cannot give permission to build on land it has no control over...period. In Spain, you get official planning permission, except if somebody notices that it conflicts with other central government policies. Then you lose your home without compensation, despite it not being your fault. Which is just a teeny bit unjust.

In fact, some areas, you have a house legally built, then they change the law a couple of decades later and retrospectively want to demolish the house for failing a planning law that hadn't been passed at the time of building.

that's why the spanish property market has crashed. Nothing to do with sub-prime or anything like that. All foreign buyers have got too scared of the mess that is spanish "planning" law and it's killed the demand.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue Apr 1st, 2008 at 09:27:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]
We don't need no foreign buyers.

It'd be nice if the battle were only against the right wingers, not half of the left on top of that — François in Paris
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Apr 1st, 2008 at 09:52:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Maybe  Spain is the only country where planning permission is given by local authorities in violation of applicable planning law in exchange for bribes, but that's what's happened. The problem is not a retroactive change in law but a decision to enforce the law, which was being violated left and right by local governments and property developers.

It'd be nice if the battle were only against the right wingers, not half of the left on top of that — François in Paris
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Apr 1st, 2008 at 09:55:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, I was reading just this weekend about a couple whose house was built in 1970 is under threat of demolition under a law passed in 1995.

Nothing to do with bribery.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue Apr 1st, 2008 at 10:51:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Link?

It'd be nice if the battle were only against the right wingers, not half of the left on top of that — François in Paris
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Apr 1st, 2008 at 11:57:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Are you talking about this?

It'd be nice if the battle were only against the right wingers, not half of the left on top of that — François in Paris
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Apr 1st, 2008 at 12:10:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yup

"I don't disagree with the principle of clearing the clutter along the coasts. But our home was built in 1971 - 17 years before this law came in and it is unjust that we are effectively losing it,"


keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue Apr 1st, 2008 at 01:23:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]
There was a pre-existing Coastal Law from 1968, too.

It'd be nice if the battle were only against the right wingers, not half of the left on top of that — François in Paris
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Apr 1st, 2008 at 01:33:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Veinte mil afectados por la Ley de Costas acusan al Gobierno de manipular las playas - Expansión.com Twenty thousand people affected
Ignorancia
Una de sus fundadores es Carmen del Amo, actual coordinadora de la plataforma. Hace tres años, Carmen compró una vivienda en la costa levantina sin saber que formaba parte del dominio público, es decir, que el Estado ya había decidido expropiarla por haberse construido encima de una duna o una playa. "Me enteré que lo que había comprado no era mío por unos vecinos, porque el Gobierno jamás comunicó una palabra a nadie".
Ignorance
One of the founders [of the National Platform of Victims of the Coastal Law] is Carmen del Amo, current coordinator of the Platform. Three years ago, Carmen bought a home on the Mediterranean Coast without knowing it was int he public domain, that is, the State had already decided to expropriate it for having been built on a dune or beach. "I found out through the neighbours that what I had bought wasn't mine, because the Government never said a word to anyone".
En la misma línea se manifestó, Clifford Carter, que sufrió la expropiación de su casa en el Saler, en Valencia: "Se limitaron a publicar un anuncio en el BOE, un documento que casi nadie consulta, y menos los extranjeros". Clifford Carter expressed himself along the same lines. He suffered the expropriation of his home in Saler, Valencia: "they limited themselves to publish a notice in the Official Journal, a document that almost nobody consults, and least of all foreigners".
La PNALC estima que entre un 15% y un 20% de los afectados por la aplicación de la Ley de Costas son ciudadanos no españoles, en especial jubilados del norte de Europa. "Los ciudadanos foráneos ya no se fían de la seguridad jurídica española y están dejando de invertir en el mercado residencial", sentencia el portavoz de la plataforma. The PNALC estimates that between 15% and 20% of those affected by the application of the Coastal Law are foreign citizens, especially retirees from Northern Europe. "Foreign citizens don't trust Spain's legal security and are stopping to invest in the residential market", said the speaker for the Platform.

Right, so we have people who were swindled when buying property and people who claim nobody reads the Official Journal.

It'd be nice if the battle were only against the right wingers, not half of the left on top of that — François in Paris

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Apr 1st, 2008 at 01:29:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]
All they need to do is call up California. We know how to move water around.

Might need a few extra nuclear reactors, though.

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Tue Apr 1st, 2008 at 02:05:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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