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Another problem that this "new philosophy" is going to have to deal with is the question of what's wrong with giving jobs to third world workers? My idealistic view of socialism is that the international movement would strike in Europe, say, in reaction to labor problems in South America, for example. Or in the U.S. to support workers in China.

If the proposed planned economy is set up to protect the jobs of western workers, which is the current approach of American trade unions, then it is part and parcel of the current problem of defining an "other" that must be held down in order to keep oneself up.

Workers in a globally distributed economy can only fend off the system by working together, which is not now a popular approach. If anyhing, the working classes in the west are on completely the other side of the argument...

by asdf on Sun Apr 13th, 2008 at 07:14:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I couldn't agree more - and would go further - Globalisation has been better than neo-colonialism for many third world countries.  We can complain of the sweat shops in India, but they are preferable to the mass starvation that reigned before.  Globalisation also involves transfers of technology, skills, infrastructure and educational/political literacy which can result in autonomous development as many of the Asian Tiger economies have demonstrated.  At least some of the anti-globalisation sentiment in the first world is driven by the very real fear that some"third world" countries are catching up and may become dominant in the future.

But the biggest problems is that, whereas economic corporations have globalised extremely rapidly, the political, trade union, public service and legislative/regulative frameworks have remained largely national (and chauvinist) in character - and have thus had almost no ability or success to balance the ecnomic growth and success of the capitalist cl;asses.  #

It is no accident that the real venom of the neo-cons is not directed at France (as Jerome fondly imagines) but at anything that smacks of international or global regulation - thus the UN, EU, Kyoto, ICHR, Internal National courts of Justice etc. must be dismantled or destroyed for the neocon project to succeed.  

Individual nation states - even France -are child's play for the big international players - it is the growth of international law and institutions which are the real threat to the neocon project.

"It's a mystery to me - the game commences, For the usual fee - plus expenses, Confidential information - it's in my diary..."

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot dotty communists) on Mon Apr 14th, 2008 at 08:28:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]
We can complain of the sweat shops in India, but they are preferable to the mass starvation that reigned before.

Well, uh, but what about Africa? No sweatshops involved, but market ideology forced upon governments and preventing action.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Mon Apr 14th, 2008 at 10:12:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Sweatshops before and after, a lot of aid, a lot of aid organisations with "empowerment" philosophies, and yet very little positive development.  I'm not sure that it is market ideologies forced on Governments which is the primary cause of Government inaction - although there are obviously instances of that.  Often the "indigenous" Governments seem worse that the colonial regimes they have replaced - and I know a fair amount of the depredations practiced by the colonisers.  

There is something about deep poverty which is deeply debasing, and which is reflected also in political cultures.  It is very hard not to see Africa through western ideas, and not to impose implicitly western models of development.  Many societies have recovered from colonial domination, but not many African ones.  I could offer some hypotheses, but it would take a diary, and I am not well qualified enough  to take the flak that would probably ensue.

Either way Globalisation is a reality, not an option, and it is the quality of the international and local political response which is at issue.  Both are sadly deficient in the case of Africa.

"It's a mystery to me - the game commences, For the usual fee - plus expenses, Confidential information - it's in my diary..."

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot dotty communists) on Mon Apr 14th, 2008 at 10:48:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Frank Schnittger:
Either way Globalisation is a reality, not an option
The technological revolution in communications leading to the global village may be a fact of life, but the deregulation of the global economy through floating exchange rates, liberalised international capital flows and the WTO (and the EU's single market, and ASEAN, and NAFTA, and Mercosur...) are political choices.

As is well known even Bretton Woods was designed to allow sustained global trade imbalances, against the proposals of Keynes who argued for global regulation of currencies and trade balances in order to introduce negative (i.e., stabilizing) feedbacks into the global economy.

We would live in a very different world if, via policy choices, people were more internationally mobile than capital.

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Apr 14th, 2008 at 11:00:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]
IMF and EU Are Blamed for Starvation in Niger
Johanne Sekkenes, the mission head of MSF which is mounting the biggest emergency exercise in its history in Niger, says the current emergency could have been avoided. "This is not a famine, in the Somalian way," she said. "The harvest was bad in 2004 and the millet granaries are empty. Yet there is food on the markets. The trouble is that the price of the food is beyond anyone's reach. "Given this situation, it was criminal of the UN this year to tackle the emergency in a gingerly way, putting 'moderately priced' cereals on the market. The UN should have immediately organised free food distribution."

Ms Sekkenes said the International Monetary Fund and the European Union had pressed Niger too hard to implement a structural adjustment programme. "No sooner had the government been re-elected [this year] than it was obliged to introduce 19 per cent VAT on basic foodstuffs. At the same time, as part of the policy, emergency grain reserves were abolished."

From another article on the same famine:

MSF: Plenty of food - yet the poor are starving

The starvation in Niger is not the inevitable consequence of poverty, or simply the fault of locusts or drought. It is also the result of a belief that the free market can solve the problems of one of the world's poorest countries.

...The last harvest was only 11% below the five-yearly average. Prices have been rising also because traders in Niger have been exporting grain to wealthier neighbouring countries, including Nigeria and Ghana.

Niger, the second-poorest country in the world, relies heavily on donors such as the EU and France, which favour free-market solutions to African poverty. So the Niger government declined to hand out free food to the starving. Instead, it offered millet at subsidised prices. But the poorest could still not afford to buy.

...Last month around 2,000 protesters marched through the streets of the capital, Niamey, demanding free food. The government refused. The same month, G8 finance ministers agreed to write off the country's $2bn (?1.3bn) debt.

The human side:

In Tahoua market, there is no sign that times are hard. Instead, there are piles of red onions, bundles of glistening spinach, and pumpkins sliced into orange shards. There are plastic bags of rice, pasta and manioc flour, and the sound of butchers' knives whistling as they are sharpened before hacking apart joints of goat and beef.

A few minutes' drive from the market, along muddy streets filled with puddles of rainwater, there is the more familiar face of Niger. Under canvas tents, aid workers coax babies with spidery limbs to take sips of milk, or the smallest dabs of high-protein paste.

Wasted infants are wrapped in gold foil to keep them warm. There is the sound of children wailing, or coughing in machine-gun bursts.

"I cannot afford to buy millet in the market, so I have no food, and there is no milk to give my baby," says Fatou, a mother cradling her son Alhassan. Though he is 12 months old he weighs just 3.3kg (around 7lbs).



*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Mon Apr 14th, 2008 at 01:41:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]
What's that Jerome says? "Famine is a market solution"?
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Mon Apr 14th, 2008 at 01:43:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]
...and the sad thing is that even most European leftists would think that that line is a bad joke, and that Naomi Klein is hyperventilating with Disaster Capitalism.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Mon Apr 14th, 2008 at 01:49:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]
When people are starving there is only one humanitarian solution, and that is to give them food as quickly as possible.  However that can also have the effect of rendering local agricultural activity uneconomic, and thus depressing local production still further.  Thus the solution may be to provide an income that can enable starving people to buy food locally at sustainable prices.  

Meanwhile, in many instances the President has a string of Mercedes, a private plane, and a Swiss Bank account, and his officials are creaming off the aid budget...  As I said earlier, often there are failures of political leadership at both local and international levels and the development of good representative, educational, infrastructural, and economic structures at local level is a better long term solution than ever greater dependency on external aid budgets.

"It's a mystery to me - the game commences, For the usual fee - plus expenses, Confidential information - it's in my diary..."

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot dotty communists) on Mon Apr 14th, 2008 at 02:04:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I don't see how what you say applies to what the quoted articles describe.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Mon Apr 14th, 2008 at 02:13:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I can't comment on the specifics of the article as I know little about Niger.  I have studied development economics in other countries and what I have said above would not be particularly controversial in the context.  

In the Irish Famine c. 1845-52 c. 1 Million died and one 1 million emigrated at a time when grain and cattle were being exported to England.  500,000 were evicted from their lands for not paying the rent.  The colonial and landlord class structure was as much responsible for the toll as the potato blight, if not more so.  Famine was indeed the market and colonial solution to Irish rebelliousness and population growth.

Ultimately. political independence was only partly the solution.  Economic independence (or at least an interdependence of near equals) did not come until much later - arguably mid 1990's.  Before that emigration was still the historic norm, and the population continued to decline until the 1960's despite high birth rates.  

It's a long hard road, and there is no easy solution.  Debt forgiveness and economic aid is part of that solution, but ultimately the political and economic development can only be done by the people themselves.

"It's a mystery to me - the game commences, For the usual fee - plus expenses, Confidential information - it's in my diary..."

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot dotty communists) on Mon Apr 14th, 2008 at 02:33:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I can't comment on the specifics of the article

You don't have to comment on the specifics, you just have to relate them to the big picture you draw. I say there is lack of coherence.

Debt forgiveness and economic aid is part of that solution, but ultimately the political and economic development can only be done by the people themselves.

The articles I quoted give an example when debt forgiveness is made conditional on the local government abolishing what has been in place before: grain stocks, price controls, free distribution; and set free processess that made the situation worse: trading of agricultural products to the highest bidder (exporting it to neighbouring countries); and all that at a time when the overall production shortage was not in any way catastrophic: a mere 11% below average. None of this you can blame on the locals and lack of development -- this is the 'development' we prescribe to them.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Tue Apr 15th, 2008 at 04:51:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Having just forgiven previous debt, presumably the G8 weren't prepared to lend more without some prospect of being repaid.  Most aid (other than emergency) is predicated on the assumption that it is about assisting countries to become more self-sufficient and less dependent on future aid - by assisting in skills development, infrastructural investment etc.  

If Niger is still exporting food - what is the income derived being used for?  Is there an internal tribal/class/elite structure whereby some starve and some are relatively well off?  Are their huge internal inefficiencies, waste, corruption, and lack of planning? Are there projects in train which can improve the overall productive capacity and income distribution of the economy?  

I'm afraid the specifics ARE very important, and blanket assertions that "its all the West's fault" don't really help to resolve the problem because "the West" is never going to take 100% responsibility for resolving the problems, and the whole point of development is to devolve responsibility, power and capability to the the local polity.

"It's a mystery to me - the game commences, For the usual fee - plus expenses, Confidential information - it's in my diary..."

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot dotty communists) on Tue Apr 15th, 2008 at 06:49:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]
it is about assisting countries to become more self-sufficient

That's nice words. In effect, it turned out to be about giving Western companies better access to local markets, capitalising on legacy dependency. But whatever the reasoning, the lethal effect on local population is the same.

If Niger is still exporting food

Not Niger, traders. (If the specifics are important, let's read with precision.) You understand, private enterprise.

- what is the income derived being used for?

That's irrelevant. Whether that income is turned back into the economy or spent on luxury (which means that ultimately the money goes back to us in the West) or gets lost in corruption, people will starve. (Unless you use money from selling food to buy food for food distribution, which doesn't make any sense.)

Is there an internal tribal/class/elite structure whereby some starve and some are relatively well off?

I refer you back to the article. The problem is that the poorest can't afford food at market prices, even subsidized prices.

Are their huge internal inefficiencies, waste, corruption, and lack of planning?

That's again irrelevant. As I said, upon Western demands, planning already in place was abolished.

Are there projects in train which can improve the overall productive capacity and income distribution of the economy?  

That's again irrelevant. Wait, no: if such projects would not be in place, Western demands of neoliberal reform are knowingly putting locals at risk.

blanket assertions that "its all the West's fault"

You saw no such blanket assertion above, neither from me nor in the quoted articles. You saw quite specific points based on a real-world example. Meanwhile, what I saw from you were blanket assertions (or at least the insinuation of blanket assertions in the form of questions) without any use of evidence.

help to resolve the problem

I'm talking about a problem caused by the West, a minor shortage that wouldn't have turned into a famine without Western intervention, all this while ostensibly working on resolving earlier problems - at their own terms.

the whole point of development is to devolve responsibility, power and capability to the the local polity.

Prescribing economic policy is no devolution of responsibility, power and capability. It's the seizure of them.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Tue Apr 15th, 2008 at 07:30:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Ok DoDo - I'll leave you to solve the Niger problem, seeing as my comments are deemed either irrelevant or ill-informed. I've heard your arguments being used extensively for the past 35 years - and mostly by people with little or no actual experience of working in sub Saharan Africa, whereas those who have actually worked there extensively tend to see things as a lot more complex.  I am aware of the history of gross colonial and neo-colonial exploitation, but I don't have first hand experience of Niger, neither have I ever studied it in detail, so hopefully you will follow through on your commitment and achieve better results than those who have gone before you.

"It's a mystery to me - the game commences, For the usual fee - plus expenses, Confidential information - it's in my diary..."
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot dotty communists) on Tue Apr 15th, 2008 at 08:18:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]
When people are starving there is only one humanitarian solution, and that is to give them food as quickly as possible.  However that can also have the effect of rendering local agricultural activity uneconomic, and thus depressing local production still further.

Purely because Western(TM) "development aid" is and has always been industrial subsidies in drag. If "we" were serious about the aid in question, we'd distribute free food, and buy whatever food the local farmers could produce. Shorter transportation times, money into the local economy rather than big agribiz, and you don't destroy the local agricultural sector, thus not setting the stage for a replay next year.

- Jake

If you only spend 20 minutes of the rest of your life on economics, go spend them here.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Mon Apr 14th, 2008 at 02:15:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It is no accident that the real venom of the neo-cons is not directed at France (as Jerome fondly imagines) but at anything that smacks of international or global regulation

Hmmm, I think similar amounts of venom are spent on those, but also on Germany and other places whenever economic news seemingly favourable to the ideology come up. You may find Jérôme's fervour amusing nationalist self-overestimation from Ireland, but I'm familiar with the steadfast drippling of venom via the media and international fora he's angry about, and think he may only over-emphasize how much of it France gets.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Mon Apr 14th, 2008 at 10:17:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]
its 'rhenan capitalism', with strong (long term) relationships between banks and industrial companies, has been under similarly ceaseless attacks by the neolibs.

Probably because the banks had the junior role in the partnership.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Mon Apr 14th, 2008 at 10:39:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]
(not to mention, of course, the institutional role given to unions in companies. That grates, too)

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes
by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Mon Apr 14th, 2008 at 10:39:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Ahem, sweatshops have had no observable effect on starvation and malnutrition in India. If anything, they seem to have amounted to a slight negative impact.

That's not to say there's nothing positive about industrialisation, but we shouldn't get carried away with stereotypes.

by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Mon Apr 14th, 2008 at 10:25:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]

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