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Point accepted, and it becomes really difficult in areas like health care.  But it can be done.  The problem is that there are huge vested interests determined to stop it happening.  Funny how it is impossible to measure health care quality and  efficiencies in the public sector - but no difficulty in charging for it in the private!

"It's a mystery to me - the game commences, For the usual fee - plus expenses, Confidential information - it's in my diary..."
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot dotty communists) on Mon Apr 14th, 2008 at 11:41:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]
In areas like health care and education, New Labour's target obsession has been demonstrably damaging.

A couple of examples come to mind. One is the charge that people have been alleged to be kept waiting in ambulances before being admitted to Accidents and Emergencies in order not to violate a government-imposed target that all patients should progress to a certain stage within 4 hours of admission. The other example is that, after focusing on the number of pupuls excluded from schools for 6 school days or longer, policies have been adopted that discourage schools from excluding pupils for that length of time (by making it a monetary cost for the school), as well as having Local Authority officials do their best to avoid long-term exclusions whether or not the underlying issues are addressed. The same thing happens with permanent exclusions: it is possible for the Local Authority to negotiate a voluntary transfer of a student from one school to another as a way to avert a permanent exclusion. The end effect, the pupil moving school, is the same as it would have otherwise been, but it doesn't show up on permanent exclusion statistics.

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Apr 14th, 2008 at 11:46:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]
All of this is possible where the "customer" has no effective means of redress for any harm suffered -  a key organisational design principle for any service industry.

"It's a mystery to me - the game commences, For the usual fee - plus expenses, Confidential information - it's in my diary..."
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot dotty communists) on Mon Apr 14th, 2008 at 12:14:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]
What it's a key organisational design principle for any service industry that the customer should have no effective means of redress?

that's cynical ;-)

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.

by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Mon Apr 14th, 2008 at 12:15:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]
nah - its what the public sector is like now, and what needs to be changed!

"It's a mystery to me - the game commences, For the usual fee - plus expenses, Confidential information - it's in my diary..."
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot dotty communists) on Mon Apr 14th, 2008 at 01:32:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Actually, the tendency to consider people using public services as customers is just as much a problem as anything else.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Mon Apr 14th, 2008 at 01:37:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Call me naïve but - the ballot ?

Un roi sans divertissement est un homme plein de misères
by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Wed Apr 16th, 2008 at 05:57:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Charging for stuff is not necessarily measuring it.

Read any analysis of private sector charging by health economists (some of Enthoven's early work will do) and you'll see that private health care does not do half of the measurement that you are ascribing to them.

by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Mon Apr 14th, 2008 at 12:14:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Funny how it is impossible to measure health care quality and  efficiencies in the public sector - but no difficulty in charging for it in the private!

It's easy to set price. Cost-plus works fine for the purpose of the health care provider. Determining value, on the other hand, is a much stickier issue.

- Jake

If you only spend 20 minutes of the rest of your life on economics, go spend them here.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Mon Apr 14th, 2008 at 02:26:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Even a cost plus model requires measurement of service volumes, and an analysis of costs - and usually an analysis of costs elsewhere to determine the reasonableness of the proposed price.  I have known all of these basis metrics and comparisons to be resisted at senior levels in the public sector.

"It's a mystery to me - the game commences, For the usual fee - plus expenses, Confidential information - it's in my diary..."
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot dotty communists) on Mon Apr 14th, 2008 at 02:42:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]
And they are resisted for good reason.

From a value perspective, cost-plus is nonsense. A simple antibiotic treatment for a lung infection saves your life. It costs - at worst - € 100 and a couple of doctor's visits.

I don't know the price tag for a major cosmetic operation, but I would be very surprised if it is less than two orders of magnitude greater.

Without going too far into the value of purely cosmetic operations, I hope that we can at least agree that curing a patient of TB is more valuable than a facelift?

Further, the comparison of costs across suppliers assume a roughly comparable product and that customers are able to shop between suppliers. In many cases this is simply an invalid frame of reference. Not only is major surgery (nevermind emergency care!) a sufficiently rare event for most people that the marketplace won't work [1], there is also the issue that many aspects of pre- and post-treatment care are not (easily) comparable across facilities.

Applying the kind of metrics that you suggest to medical care is like trying to figure out the mass of the Earth by counting the number of pebbles on a beach. It's not the right way to do it. In fact, it's not even a wrong way to do it.

And don't get me started on the moral hazard of reducing citizens to "consumers" and medical professionals to "suppliers."

Don't get me wrong; I'm all for transparency and accountability. But making up insane measurements just to measure something isn't accountability. It's accountabilityness, to Colbertize a bit.

- Jake

[1] Recall that the marketplace is only self-correcting if the burnt hand can teach - if each person breaks his leg at most once or twice during a lifetime, there is no way he can amass the level of experience with the different providers of health care to make an informed choice on his own.

If you only spend 20 minutes of the rest of your life on economics, go spend them here.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Mon Apr 14th, 2008 at 03:25:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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