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I don't see how what you say applies to what the quoted articles describe.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Mon Apr 14th, 2008 at 02:13:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I can't comment on the specifics of the article as I know little about Niger.  I have studied development economics in other countries and what I have said above would not be particularly controversial in the context.  

In the Irish Famine c. 1845-52 c. 1 Million died and one 1 million emigrated at a time when grain and cattle were being exported to England.  500,000 were evicted from their lands for not paying the rent.  The colonial and landlord class structure was as much responsible for the toll as the potato blight, if not more so.  Famine was indeed the market and colonial solution to Irish rebelliousness and population growth.

Ultimately. political independence was only partly the solution.  Economic independence (or at least an interdependence of near equals) did not come until much later - arguably mid 1990's.  Before that emigration was still the historic norm, and the population continued to decline until the 1960's despite high birth rates.  

It's a long hard road, and there is no easy solution.  Debt forgiveness and economic aid is part of that solution, but ultimately the political and economic development can only be done by the people themselves.

"It's a mystery to me - the game commences, For the usual fee - plus expenses, Confidential information - it's in my diary..."

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot dotty communists) on Mon Apr 14th, 2008 at 02:33:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I can't comment on the specifics of the article

You don't have to comment on the specifics, you just have to relate them to the big picture you draw. I say there is lack of coherence.

Debt forgiveness and economic aid is part of that solution, but ultimately the political and economic development can only be done by the people themselves.

The articles I quoted give an example when debt forgiveness is made conditional on the local government abolishing what has been in place before: grain stocks, price controls, free distribution; and set free processess that made the situation worse: trading of agricultural products to the highest bidder (exporting it to neighbouring countries); and all that at a time when the overall production shortage was not in any way catastrophic: a mere 11% below average. None of this you can blame on the locals and lack of development -- this is the 'development' we prescribe to them.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Tue Apr 15th, 2008 at 04:51:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Having just forgiven previous debt, presumably the G8 weren't prepared to lend more without some prospect of being repaid.  Most aid (other than emergency) is predicated on the assumption that it is about assisting countries to become more self-sufficient and less dependent on future aid - by assisting in skills development, infrastructural investment etc.  

If Niger is still exporting food - what is the income derived being used for?  Is there an internal tribal/class/elite structure whereby some starve and some are relatively well off?  Are their huge internal inefficiencies, waste, corruption, and lack of planning? Are there projects in train which can improve the overall productive capacity and income distribution of the economy?  

I'm afraid the specifics ARE very important, and blanket assertions that "its all the West's fault" don't really help to resolve the problem because "the West" is never going to take 100% responsibility for resolving the problems, and the whole point of development is to devolve responsibility, power and capability to the the local polity.

"It's a mystery to me - the game commences, For the usual fee - plus expenses, Confidential information - it's in my diary..."

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot dotty communists) on Tue Apr 15th, 2008 at 06:49:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]
it is about assisting countries to become more self-sufficient

That's nice words. In effect, it turned out to be about giving Western companies better access to local markets, capitalising on legacy dependency. But whatever the reasoning, the lethal effect on local population is the same.

If Niger is still exporting food

Not Niger, traders. (If the specifics are important, let's read with precision.) You understand, private enterprise.

- what is the income derived being used for?

That's irrelevant. Whether that income is turned back into the economy or spent on luxury (which means that ultimately the money goes back to us in the West) or gets lost in corruption, people will starve. (Unless you use money from selling food to buy food for food distribution, which doesn't make any sense.)

Is there an internal tribal/class/elite structure whereby some starve and some are relatively well off?

I refer you back to the article. The problem is that the poorest can't afford food at market prices, even subsidized prices.

Are their huge internal inefficiencies, waste, corruption, and lack of planning?

That's again irrelevant. As I said, upon Western demands, planning already in place was abolished.

Are there projects in train which can improve the overall productive capacity and income distribution of the economy?  

That's again irrelevant. Wait, no: if such projects would not be in place, Western demands of neoliberal reform are knowingly putting locals at risk.

blanket assertions that "its all the West's fault"

You saw no such blanket assertion above, neither from me nor in the quoted articles. You saw quite specific points based on a real-world example. Meanwhile, what I saw from you were blanket assertions (or at least the insinuation of blanket assertions in the form of questions) without any use of evidence.

help to resolve the problem

I'm talking about a problem caused by the West, a minor shortage that wouldn't have turned into a famine without Western intervention, all this while ostensibly working on resolving earlier problems - at their own terms.

the whole point of development is to devolve responsibility, power and capability to the the local polity.

Prescribing economic policy is no devolution of responsibility, power and capability. It's the seizure of them.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Tue Apr 15th, 2008 at 07:30:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Ok DoDo - I'll leave you to solve the Niger problem, seeing as my comments are deemed either irrelevant or ill-informed. I've heard your arguments being used extensively for the past 35 years - and mostly by people with little or no actual experience of working in sub Saharan Africa, whereas those who have actually worked there extensively tend to see things as a lot more complex.  I am aware of the history of gross colonial and neo-colonial exploitation, but I don't have first hand experience of Niger, neither have I ever studied it in detail, so hopefully you will follow through on your commitment and achieve better results than those who have gone before you.

"It's a mystery to me - the game commences, For the usual fee - plus expenses, Confidential information - it's in my diary..."
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot dotty communists) on Tue Apr 15th, 2008 at 08:18:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]

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