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I'm not sure how big the derivatives problem is for the typical person or family.  So long as they have a reliable local bank to stash their savings in, and thus the give their communities the ability to lend to people to start small business, buy houses, and do other typical bank-y stuff, there's not a terrible threat.  And, if it's the case that derivatives represent no terrible threat to the typical person, businesses should be allowed to fail.

The Bear Stearns bailout was stupid.  Nobody would've lost anything that they weren't fully aware they could lose.  (That's why we have the warnings on the financial contracts that basically say, "Hey, if this goes to hell, then suck on it, you prick.")  The moral hazard argument was right on that.

If the stock-peddlers built them a big mess selling each other garbage in the interest of generating fees, well, tough.  They should lose their jobs, and (pointing) the Unemployment and Medicaid forms are over there, and (pointing in the other direction) the line starts over there.

Conservatives want live babies so they can raise them to be dead soldiers. - George Carlin

by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Wed Apr 16th, 2008 at 12:01:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Drew J Jones:
The Bear Stearns bailout was stupid.  Nobody would've lost anything that they weren't fully aware they could lose.  (That's why we have the warnings on the financial contracts that basically say, "Hey, if this goes to hell, then suck on it, you prick.")  The moral hazard argument was right on that.
What if the real bailout was of J P Morgan?

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Apr 16th, 2008 at 12:03:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]
What if it was?

Conservatives want live babies so they can raise them to be dead soldiers. - George Carlin
by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Wed Apr 16th, 2008 at 12:16:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I guess J P Morgan is not important, then? So much for the bank that stopped the 1907 panic all by itself.

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Apr 16th, 2008 at 12:25:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Are you suggesting that we owe them?

Conservatives want live babies so they can raise them to be dead soldiers. - George Carlin
by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Wed Apr 16th, 2008 at 12:29:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm saying how the Mighty have fallen.

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Apr 16th, 2008 at 12:30:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Companies, like empires, rise and fall.

Now, as a practical matter, JP Morgan does, I believe, run a lot of local banks, so a bailout for it might make sense if it were on the verge of failing.

Conservatives want live babies so they can raise them to be dead soldiers. - George Carlin

by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Wed Apr 16th, 2008 at 12:31:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]
as a practical matter, JP Morgan does, I believe, run a lot of local banks

Right, that's what I was wondering.

Nobody should care what happens to a broker-dealer bank like Bear Stearns (or Lehman Brothers, though Lehman Brothers has been at the centre of the fixed-income market infrastructure for a long time).

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Apr 16th, 2008 at 12:33:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Also, if the real bailout was of JP Morgan, then did we not just cover the problem up instead of bailing out JP directly and facing the potential crisis head-on?

Conservatives want live babies so they can raise them to be dead soldiers. - George Carlin
by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Wed Apr 16th, 2008 at 12:30:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Because that would have been a knock-on failure of two banks and the "oh shit!" effect might have been too much?

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Apr 16th, 2008 at 12:31:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It might have resulted in a stock market crash, in all likelihood, but would we not have eventually returned to valuation based more on fundamentals rather than animal spirits?  The market crashed in 1987, and we're still alive.

Conservatives want live babies so they can raise them to be dead soldiers. - George Carlin
by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Wed Apr 16th, 2008 at 12:35:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]
... and an awful lot of people are not alive today partly because it did.

- Jake

If you only spend 20 minutes of the rest of your life on economics, go spend them here.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Wed Apr 16th, 2008 at 01:30:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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