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zoe:
Pigeons have as much right to exist as cats do.

maybe but my money's still on the cats. The pigeons do have a defence, they can fly away.  Its not entireley senseless, its keeping their skills honed.

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.

by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Wed Apr 23rd, 2008 at 05:15:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]
if you're saying the cat has an advantage over a pigeon, well,  I won't argue that point

but to say you're cheering the cat on to kill pigeons is something entirely different

maybe it's because all the neighbours had lived in war-torn Europe prior to living in Canada, but nobody, and I mean nobody, thought that animals should be killing other animals if it could be prevented.  And it can.  Very easily.

by zoe on Wed Apr 23rd, 2008 at 05:22:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]
zoe:
thought that animals should be killing other animals if it could be prevented. ;And it can. ;Very easily.

How? supergluing their paws to the ground is about the only way I can think of stopping them from hunting.

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.

by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Wed Apr 23rd, 2008 at 05:25:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Much more ethical than letting them hunt, I think.

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.
by poemless on Wed Apr 23rd, 2008 at 05:53:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]
how about:

  •  keeping them indoors (a very good idea with all the feline leukemia going around, which cannot be prevented by vaccination)

  •  putting a collar on them with bells so that the birds hear the cat

  •  keeping them in a closed area
by zoe on Wed Apr 23rd, 2008 at 05:54:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]
zoe:
(a very good idea with all the feline leukemia going around, which cannot be prevented by vaccination)

FLV vaccination is about 75-85% effective, which is reasonably good as animal vaccinations go.

Bell collars are laughably innefective, and keeping cats in a closed area, is a big cause of feline obesity and so would be equally cruel

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.

by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Wed Apr 23rd, 2008 at 06:19:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]
my cats were never fat.
by zoe on Wed Apr 23rd, 2008 at 06:25:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Bell collars are laughably innefective,...

Citation?
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

(Jus' kidding.)

Member of the Anti-Fabulousness League since 1987.

by Ephemera on Wed Apr 23rd, 2008 at 06:29:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]
No citation needed, the bell might make a jangly noise when they're walking about, but stalking prey, they move too slowly to ring the bell, till the last second pounce, and by then its too late in a vast majority of cases.

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Wed Apr 23rd, 2008 at 06:32:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]
really...

and you know this how?

by zoe on Wed Apr 23rd, 2008 at 06:36:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]
six months sleeping with a vet.

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Wed Apr 23rd, 2008 at 06:39:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]
a vet from the war in Afghanistan or Iraq?
by zoe on Wed Apr 23rd, 2008 at 06:42:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]
'Nam...

Birmin(g)am

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.

by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Wed Apr 23rd, 2008 at 06:48:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Six months!?!?!

You stud.

Member of the Anti-Fabulousness League since 1987.

by Ephemera on Wed Apr 23rd, 2008 at 06:43:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]
it depends which type of bell you put on.  the jingles don't work very well but there are real bells that work extremely well.  
by zoe on Wed Apr 23rd, 2008 at 06:44:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]
My Vet friend was convinced that the idea that any bell would work was wishful thinking and guilt avoidance on the part of cat owners.

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Wed Apr 23rd, 2008 at 06:50:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]
nope.  there are the real bells, which were extremely well.

of course, you have to take it off at night if you expect to get any sleep.  

I am seriously surprised by the reaction of the people here - like talking to people 20 years ago about paper recycling or something.  really, really backwards!

by zoe on Wed Apr 23rd, 2008 at 06:55:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Based on my experience, ceebs is right.

I have a wildlife-friendly garden.  It's taken years of neglect work to get it that way.  I've got hedges, trees, nestboxes, a wildlife pond and buy local organic birdseed in 30kg sacks.  

I like the birds in my garden.  Really.

But bells don't work, because cats don't hunt by running after birds. I used to have two bells on the collar of one of my cats, and, as ceebs said, it was an exercise in assuaging guilt.  A tabby, he was invisible when lurking under a bush, and all he had to do was wait for a bird to come within range and pounce.

What the bells did do was irritate him.  And with hindsight, I think it may have been rather cruel as well as pointless to attach an annoying noisy thing to the neck of a creature with far more sensitive ears than ours.

by Sassafras on Thu Apr 24th, 2008 at 02:12:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Eh? We should be out stopping hawks from eating pigeons? Stopping spiders from killing wasps? Stopping swallows catching flies?

Or did you mean domestic animals?

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Wed Apr 23rd, 2008 at 05:25:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]
if you feed your pet spider, then it has no need to kill flies

same with cats - unless you don't feed them, they have no need to kill birds

look at the audubon sites where they  BEG people to keep their cats indoors so they don't kill ANY birds.  or to put a bell on the cats' collars so the birds can hear them.

Cats are destroying the bird population which is already at risk.

The Effects of Cat Predation on Wildlife

from the USFWS Migratory Bird Mangement Office

Americans keep an estimated 60 million cats as pets. Let's say each cat kills only one bird a year. That would mean that cats kill over 60 million birds (minimum) each year - more wildlife than any oil spill.

Scientific studies actually show that each year, cats kill hundreds of millions of migratory songbirds. In 1990, researchers estimated that "outdoor" house cats and feral cats were responsible for killing nearly 78 million small mammals and birds annually in the United Kingdom.

University of Wisconsin ornithologist, Dr. Santley Temple estimates that 20-150 million songbirds are killed each year by rural cats in Wisconsin alone.

Feline predation is not "natural." Cats were domesticated by the ancient Egyptians and taken throughout the world by the Romans. Cats were brought to North America in the 1800's to control rats. The "tabby" that sits curled up on your couch is not a natural predator and has never been in the natural food chain in the Western Hemisphere.


by zoe on Wed Apr 23rd, 2008 at 05:49:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]
zoe:
if you feed your pet spider, then it has no need to kill flies
What do you feed your pet spider? Dead flies. What is your point?

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Apr 23rd, 2008 at 05:53:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]
who has a pet spider?  it was an analogy.

I don't get it.  Is this some kind of joke on me?

Why don't people want to help the bird population because cats don't only kill pigeons, you know.  They kill any bird they can get their paws on.

And the number of these birds is dwindling every year.

And you guys are worried about your cats not playing enough?

This has got to be a joke...

by zoe on Wed Apr 23rd, 2008 at 05:57:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]
who dosn't know someone who has a pet spider? (although tis may be the circles I move in)

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Wed Apr 23rd, 2008 at 06:34:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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