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Prove that statement please. We certainly can't sustain it in the ridiculously wasteful way we have been, but that's another matter.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Thu Apr 24th, 2008 at 06:10:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Prove it ?? Sorry, one of the reasons I don't write diaries like Jerome is that I don't have figures and graphs and memorised access to economist articles dating back several years.

What I do have is a sense of impressions, gained largely from the various essays and news items we discuss on a regular basis.

It seems quite obvious to me that we have, in the west, a set of lifestyle expectations that are predicated on cheap energy from hydrocarbons, cheap resources based on contorl of markets and cheap food based on cheap energy and political control of supplier countries. But I cannot prove that, it's an impression.

It also seems to me that our politicians have refused to understand that these "good" times were coming to an end, or if they have, in such a timescale that they can put off electorally difficult decisions till after they've left office. Sadly the "unexpected" arrival of this new reality coupled with this cowardiceoptimism has not only resulted in the end period of the cheap hydrocarbon paradigm being unnecessarily problematic, but which have in some ways made them much worse.

The UK and US have not encouraged green behaviour with sufficient vigour. Indeed the killing of the Shetland wind power scheme demonstrates the chronic levels of denial at government and individual level about what is happening. Yet again, in the S of France, I was chastened by the sight of wind farms on every hilltop, such a contrast to the pathetic NIMBY-ish resistance to any development here.

What the heck are we doing driving everywhere ? Why aren't there railways being built in the UK ? Why is everything backward and in service of the great god car ? We can't pretend we can keep articulated lorries rumbling around 100s and 1000s of pointless miles in defiance of the concept of localism just cos it seemed like a good idea 15 years ago.

And politicians should have taken a lead on this. And they haven't.

But I can't prove any of it. Sorry

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Thu Apr 24th, 2008 at 06:43:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]
That's won't, not can't.

I just get grumpy at the unsupported assertions of doom that get thrown around.  

It seems quite obvious to me that we have, in the west, a set of lifestyle expectations that are predicated on cheap energy from hydrocarbons, cheap resources based on contorl of markets and cheap food based on cheap energy and political control of supplier countries.

It's still not clear to me to what extent the cheap energy is  absolutely necessary to the actual lifestyle.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Thu Apr 24th, 2008 at 07:10:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]
If you can't see that our lifestyle as currently configured is heavily dependent upon cheap hydrocarbons and the consequent cheap transportation, cheap food and the  societies that have grown up around this now-historical situation, then a few facts from a suspect source such as me is hardly likely to disabuse you.

However, to return to assertion rather than fact, when fuel doubles in price in 5 years (sorry can I bold that ? An awful lot of people, J, Oil drum etc are talking about fuel prices doubling in FIVE years) that's gonna have a real impact on the way we move things around. Car commuting is gonna become truly problematic in the UK & USA.
As DevilsTower states in his/her Big Orange Satan diary Belated Earth Day: The Big Gulp

The answer is conservation.

Drive less.
Take public transit.
Walk.
If it's too far to walk, use a bike.
If it's too far to bike, and there no public transportation, car pool.
If you can't car pool, use a smaller, more efficient vehicle.
If you have a long commute, move closer to work.
If you can't move closer, take a closer job.
If you can't get a different job, see if you can telecommute.

It really is that simple.  Which of course, doesn't mean it will be easy.

Damn right. The further down the list, the more those options scream in neon red that our way of life is toast, cos it doesn't just apply to commuting. That's everything.

HGV traffic is going to make the Tesco transportation economic model for food distribution uneconomic. Then how will london and other large cities feed themselves ? The railway capacity to do so simply doesn't exist, the goods yards don't exist and there isn't space to build them cos we built houses and other stuff on them.

And we could have planned to prepare for this. And whilst continental Europe is better placed than UK/US, we're all gonna suffer cos we still have car based economies : That's not economies with cars, that's entire patterns of life and economic opportunity based around the car resulting from half a century of cheap personal transportation. And it's over. That time has gone, it disappeared and we're now in that period of painful adjustment that has been made worse because politicians didn't accept it was coming. Which is my origianl argument

Yes, this is assertion rather than fact and you can frame it as "that's won't, not can't" if you wish. I have never written fact-heavy diaries, I don't have the smarts, the background in reason nor the research kudos to be able to mount the sort of sustained arguments that make Chris Cook or Jerome's essays so compelling. Neither am I gonna start. But if intellectual shortcomings such as mine become a barrier to having an expressed opinion then perhaps you need to say that out loud. I'm sure zoe would be interested as she argued similarly last week.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Thu Apr 24th, 2008 at 11:05:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]

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