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I too have heard that there is land that could come back into production in Russia, Ukraine, but how much, and what it's good for, remain moot. And I don't think we can assume that Russia (even if Ukraine ultimately joins the EU) might wish to supply us with biofuels on any other conditions than those of world markets (which, if oil prices rise, will see a concomitant rise in biofuels).

Within the EU 27, I would argue that availability of land is a problem. Official fallow land stood at 10.8 Mha in 2006 (Eurostat). The EU put it back into use (if farmers wish) for this year, because of wheat shortages in particular.

Could there be "vast tracts" available in Central European countries, that are not classified as fallow? Possibly, but let's look at the largest of these countries from the agricultural point of view, Poland.

Poland has a total area of 31 million hectares. More than 9 million are forest. The Usable Agricultural Area (UAA) stands at 16 Mha. Within that, arable land is at 12 Mha. Official fallow was at about 1 million hectares but dropped last year to 440,000 ha. (So here's some land coming back into use).

There are about 5 million hectares unaccounted for there, but from that have to be taken unusable lands (wetlands, uplands, barrens, shores) and all the built land of cities, towns, villages, roads, etc. I don't have numbers for those, but I can't imagine there are all that many hectares free.

And don't let's forget that, when making the choice to  abandon farming because it doesn't pay, it's the least good land that is dropped first. What is now under culture is the best.

So: is there all that much land available, and how good is it?

When locusts move on, they leave nothing behind

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Mon Apr 7th, 2008 at 11:52:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The only thing I am saying is that we are as yet far from "peak land" use as far as agriculture is concerned, and so far relatively cheap oil has made biofuel largely uneconomic.  That will change as oil becomes scarcer and prices rise - which from a conservation and climate change point of view is not necessarily a bad thing.

There are also newer crops being developed which can produce more oil equivalent per acre and with less input and conversion costs.  There will also be strategic benefits from the point of view of sustainability, employment creation, import substitution and lesser dependence on oil from unreliable trading partners.

However all of this is tinkering at the edges because bio-fuel will never be able to replace oil at current usage levels and so will probably be used more in Jet fuel and high end applications where battery/fuel cell power/weight ratios and storage requirements make other non-oil solutions unviable.

The biggest strategic waste of oil is probably now in home heating where better insulation/zero carbon frontprint housing/workplaces should have been made mandatory for all old/new houses a long time ago.  That in itself would probably save more oil than bio-fuels ever will.

"It's a mystery to me - the game commences, For the usual fee - plus expenses, Confidential information - it's in my diary..."

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot dotty communists) on Mon Apr 7th, 2008 at 12:56:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Bio-fuel won't become jet fuel. I believe we had a diary on this, at the time of Branson's publicity stunt. Energy yield.

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.
by DoDo on Mon Apr 7th, 2008 at 01:02:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]
What's the alternative when oil runs out?

"It's a mystery to me - the game commences, For the usual fee - plus expenses, Confidential information - it's in my diary..."
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot dotty communists) on Mon Apr 7th, 2008 at 02:45:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Synthetic hydrocarbons, blended wing aircraft designs and lower flight speeds.

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Apr 7th, 2008 at 02:53:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]
... from wind and solar power?


Utsukushikereba sore de ii
by BruceMcF (agila61 at netscape dot net) on Mon Apr 7th, 2008 at 02:55:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It will be very expensive, but you can do it from CO2 and water.

Synthetic fuels, just like hydrogen fuel cells, are not an energy source but an energy storage and transportation medium.

Liquid fuels are very useful because of their energy density (per volume or per weight), their stability, and their portability. I don't think they're going away. But they may become expensive and suitable only for niche uses such as off-road vehicles or where autonomy is paramount over fuel efficiency.

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Apr 7th, 2008 at 03:00:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]
We have a claim that dimethyl ether "is the perfect fuel". There are various ways to produce Dimethyl ether from simple molecules.

Wikipedia: Dimethyl ether

Conventional DME production uses the methanol dehydration method.[1] For mass production of DME as a fuel other methods are being considered, the main one being DME synthesis from hydrogen and CO gas, also known as syngas.[2]

DME can be produced from methanol by combining two methanol molecules to produce a DME molecule and a water molecule.[3] This is a reversible reaction.[3] This can be shown in the following equation:

methanol → dimethyl ether + water
2CH3OH → CH3OCH3 + H2O

There are various companies developing this method of DME production, the most active one being JFE Holding in Japan.[citation needed] The DME-synthesis method has a better overall efficiency because with methanol dehydration,[citation needed] the methanol is firstly produced from a base source such as LPG, NG or coal via synthesis and then this is converted into DME.[citation needed] This method attempts to cut out the intermediate methanol production and produce DME from LPG, NG, coal or even biomass in one process.[citation needed]



When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Apr 7th, 2008 at 03:13:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It's a matter of how much energy you can store for a given mass of carbon.

On a HHV basis per kg carbon:








Methane  74.23 MJ
Propane  61.64 MJ
Butane    59.95 MJ
DME      60.85 MJ
Diesel    56.16 MJ (n-dodecane)
Biomass  ~40 MJ (with 20MJ/kg dry and 50% carbon content)

DME is indeed a decent contender as an energy carrier, not as good as methane but on par with LPG. The real upsides are:

  • Its handling is similar to LPG and it can be stored as a liquid in low pressure tanks. Big difference with methane (very high pressures or cryo).
  • It works as a nearly straight fuel for HDI diesel engines, contrary to LPG. It just requires a lubricant additive for high pressure injectors.
  • Its thermochemical synthesis can be very selective, compared to, say, a straight-chain alkane synthesis by Fischer-Tropsch, which yields a little bit of everything from methane to heavy waxes.


Facts, selfish little bastards. They don't even care about your feelings.
by Francois in Paris on Mon Apr 7th, 2008 at 10:14:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Mmm, dummkopf.

Auto-format doesn't like my tables.


Facts, selfish little bastards. They don't even care about your feelings.

by Francois in Paris on Mon Apr 7th, 2008 at 10:16:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Am I right in presuming that if it starts with bio-coal, it would be less energy intensive than starting from CO2?

The increasing cost of both aviation gasoline and jet fuel will be a worry for the Eastern Caribbean states ... I was always intrigued by the possibilities for Ground Effect aircraft to provide more fuel efficient inter-island connections. But in any event, that is a transport task where autonomy is fairly crucial.


Utsukushikereba sore de ii

by BruceMcF (agila61 at netscape dot net) on Mon Apr 7th, 2008 at 03:23:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Plants are a way to use solar energy to produce bio-coal from CO2.

CO2 is an end-product of combustion while coal is not, so it obviously takes more energy to make fuel from CO2 than from coal.

That Ground Effect aircrat is just cool.

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Apr 7th, 2008 at 03:33:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]
... I couldn't see any way of getting around the thermodynamics that some form of bio-coal process is the most direct conversion of biomass to combustible fuel, and therefore if done efficiently the process with the best potential EROI, but then I'm not an engineer.

And there is also the question of what is the most effective co-generation with the exhaust gas, after catalytic conversion of pollutants. If that is a useful input into a synthetic hydrocarbon process, that might be very appealing, since the bio-coal itself is such an appealing complement to sustainable "use them or lose them" renewable sources of electricity.


Utsukushikereba sore de ii

by BruceMcF (agila61 at netscape dot net) on Mon Apr 7th, 2008 at 06:00:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]
... cool. After taking the local mailboat between Grenada and Cariacou, and the inter-island mailboat between Grenada and St. Vincent, with the wonderful seas over the channel between Grenada and Cariacou (Cariacou is really the southernmost of the Grenadines, even if it is politically a dependency of Grenada) that the locals call "Kick 'em Jenny", I always thought that a Ground Effect plane would be a more effective way of providing a bus service between the islands.

And that was just from pictures and articles in the press. When I went looking for an article on the concept and stumbled on that PR clip, I knew I had my link.

Of course, in terms of the Midnight Thought on the Arc of the Sun (8 April 08), the main relevance in Africa is for express transport along major rivers and lakes, focusing the express travel on the same route that the much slower barges take and actually connecting the cities and central river ports of the countryside together, rather than having the cities connected by airports and the countryside simply as fly-over country.


Utsukushikereba sore de ii

by BruceMcF (agila61 at netscape dot net) on Tue Apr 8th, 2008 at 09:52:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]
And land transport and ships, which can be lived with if one must, even if addicts of this latest civilisation drug would have withdrawal effects.

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.
by DoDo on Mon Apr 7th, 2008 at 05:15:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]
we are as yet far from "peak land" use as far as agriculture is concerned

In the EU 27, I don't think you've made a case for this. We don't have that much spare land.

20-25 million hectares (DoDo) of Russian land of unspecified quality  may provide some biofuels. But you can't just count it all in immediately as half the EU's 10% needs -- as I said above, for biofuel production it needs to be prime arable with the right climate (plus irrigation for maize), to be easily mechanisable (ie flat) and with easy transport infrastructure, and land possessing these qualities needs to be grouped together in the same region to justify industrial investment and to facilitate export of the finished product. There are constraints here that mean it will provide far from 5% of the EU's current consumption, without adding Russia's own consumption in there (since we're envisaging an end-game scenario with little or no liquid fossile fuels).

When locusts move on, they leave nothing behind

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Mon Apr 7th, 2008 at 03:38:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The article also quotes the Russian minister with an exorbitant price tag needed to develop those lands (In which I presume rising oil prices weren't even factored in), but I don't know past ruble-Forint-€ exchange rates.

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.
by DoDo on Mon Apr 7th, 2008 at 05:19:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The numbers are: tripling the annual agriculture budget to 600 billion rubles = 4500 billion Ft, the latter must have been around €18 billion.

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.
by DoDo on Mon Apr 7th, 2008 at 05:42:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Biofuel from algae is still not proven to not work.

But the real question is, since when did humans have a fundamental right to jump in a car and drive for hundreds of miles? The whole "personal transportation" concept is really a post-war idea, and not necessary. How far from home did your great-grandfather roam?

by asdf on Mon Apr 7th, 2008 at 08:13:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]
To supplement you: there were no wast areas of fallow in Central Europe. The co-ops didn't collapse here, their land was distributed, and when taken over by single-family farmers, yields typically fell. I don't know about Russia & Ukraine, but given some periods of grain shortages in Soviet times that even led to accepting US help, I doubt somehow that thatmuch land became fallow.

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.
by DoDo on Mon Apr 7th, 2008 at 01:07:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I found a number of 23 million hectares withdrawn from agricultural production in the last 10 years - as a total for Russia, Ukraine and Kazakhstan.

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.
by DoDo on Mon Apr 7th, 2008 at 01:12:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Ukraine: An Agricultural Overview
Of Ukraine's total land area of 60 million hectares, roughly 42 million is classified as agricultural land... Between 1991 and 2000, sown area dropped by about 5 percent, from 32.0 million hectares to 30.4 million


*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.
by DoDo on Mon Apr 7th, 2008 at 01:23:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Russia: I found a report from May 2007 in which the Russian minister declares that Russia has 20-25 million hectares of uncultivated/fallow land suitable for cultivation, if there is money invested.

All in all, CIS doesn't seem to be able to offer surplus production for much more than 5% of European consumption, even in the best-case scenario...

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.

by DoDo on Mon Apr 7th, 2008 at 01:53:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]
But given we're only trying to reach 10% ethanol content doesn't this mean that Russia alone could provide over half the land required - without affecting food production?

"It's a mystery to me - the game commences, For the usual fee - plus expenses, Confidential information - it's in my diary..."
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot dotty communists) on Mon Apr 7th, 2008 at 02:48:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]
No. We're talking about the EU's consumption. If Russia's population were to be added to the EU you'd have a different calculation.

Plus, why should Russia provide the EU's biofuels? Who is the EU to decide what Russia should do with its fallow land? Why should Russia consume its topsoil to then burn the product?

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Apr 7th, 2008 at 02:51:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]
... in order to reduce the windfall gains from Russian oil ...

... a wait a minute, there might be a different set of motivations for net producers and net consumers.


Utsukushikereba sore de ii

by BruceMcF (agila61 at netscape dot net) on Mon Apr 7th, 2008 at 02:57:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]
"the magic of the markets" will decide who grows what in what quantities for what markets - subject to available land.  Why wouldn't Russia supply biofuel in the same way as it supplies oil and gas if the price paid is attractive enough to justify production?

As AMcF has noted - and increase in bio-fuels has resulted in increased prices for foodstuffs which has made farming in Sub S.saharan Africa more economic and resulted in growing output.  Agriculture has long been the neglected legacy industry of post-industrial and even third world economies and now it is becoming centre stage again.  The problem is when this impacts on wild-life habitats and Rainforests etc. - but presumably this doesn't apply to the same extent in the east European steppes.

"It's a mystery to me - the game commences, For the usual fee - plus expenses, Confidential information - it's in my diary..."

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot dotty communists) on Mon Apr 7th, 2008 at 03:00:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]
There's no such thing as "East European steppes". Siberia and Central Asia are, well, in Asia.

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Apr 7th, 2008 at 03:04:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]
If my memory of geography serves me correctly, there are considerable steppes in Eastern Europe (though the natural ecosystems have been heavily modified by human exploitation) as well as the even greater areas east of the Urals.  Either way - there is still considerable potential for Russia to become a significant net exporter of bio-fuels if that becomes economically viable and political policy..

"It's a mystery to me - the game commences, For the usual fee - plus expenses, Confidential information - it's in my diary..."
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot dotty communists) on Mon Apr 7th, 2008 at 03:15:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Russia's potential for net exports of biofuels is considerable compared to its own total of agricultural production. It is miniscule compared to the total European fuel demand.

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.
by DoDo on Mon Apr 7th, 2008 at 05:26:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Most of the undeveloped land is in all likelihood in Asia. At any rate, it makes little sense to call fuel that has to be transported thousands of kilometres "bio". It is also problematic that to develop this much land, at least under the assumption that the Russian Ministry of Agriculture doesn't convert to orgsanic farming, a lot of fossil oil is needed: for the tractors that plow up the virgin land, for other tractors building irrigation, to run the irrigation itself, and fertilizers.

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.
by DoDo on Mon Apr 7th, 2008 at 05:34:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Ukraine used to be the Western end of contiguous steppe, and as such served as the end of the Nomad Alley into Europe during the big migration/invasion waves from Huns to Mongols.

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.
by DoDo on Mon Apr 7th, 2008 at 05:23:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]
... prairie in Argentina and no pampas in Iowa.

I thought the extension of the steppe / prairie / pampas / plains into the Ukraine was what that short lass that won Eurovision a couple years back was stomping around about.


Utsukushikereba sore de ii

by BruceMcF (agila61 at netscape dot net) on Mon Apr 7th, 2008 at 06:04:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]
... that is, if there is a family resemblance between BruceMcF and this AMcF fellow ... part of the African Revolution discussed in the most recent Midnight Thought on the Arc of the Sun can be protrayed as "letting the market do its work", but a lot of it also involves building new institutions.

The markets that small scale farmers in Africa need are not the fictitious markets in fictitious commodities, but real, actual, markets, with regulated weights and measures and protection of contracts, and secure access to a transport route to ship out a crop surplus to customers outside the local district.


Utsukushikereba sore de ii

by BruceMcF (agila61 at netscape dot net) on Tue Apr 8th, 2008 at 12:09:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Personally, I'm only interested in solutions capable of reaching 100%.

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.
by DoDo on Mon Apr 7th, 2008 at 05:37:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]
All we need to do is cut our liquid fuel demand by 95%...

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Apr 7th, 2008 at 05:44:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I don't think anybody here, and increasingly in mainstream discourse, sees biofuels as anything more than a very problematic and marginal "solution" to  the issues created by peak oil.  100% efficient energy solutions are physically impossible, as everything has a production/transmission/utilisation/efficiency cost.  Beyond the obvious solar/wind/wave solutions it gets more problematical with fission and yet to be proven fusion sources.  The biggest contribution will probably be made by demand reduction - due to policy and price pressures - which will tend to impact on the poorest most.  We will probably come to be known as the most profligate generation ever, who presided over a planet wide devastation/exploitation/looting of non renewable resources with irreversible ecological consequences - unprecedented in 65 million years.  Probably at some point there will be world-wide resource wars with Malthussian extinctions of populations in most effected areas.  

A sad commentary on the joys of human "rationality" and our religious devotion to magical market thinking without somehow managed to factor out the ecological impact of our depredations.  Ancient civilisations made a God out of nature and we decry their barbarity, but have we been that much wiser when we ourselves became the masters of nature and proclaimed our subjugation of those Gods?

"It's a mystery to me - the game commences, For the usual fee - plus expenses, Confidential information - it's in my diary..."

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot dotty communists) on Mon Apr 7th, 2008 at 05:56:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I heard that one of the best things the EU could do would be to build grain silos in Ukraine - the implication being that Ukraine's problem is more irregular yield rather than insufficient average yield over the long term.

That is, if they needed US help it may have been they had a bad year, not that there was a lot of land laying fallow.

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Apr 7th, 2008 at 01:21:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]
From articles from recent years in a Hungarian agriculture magazine, I find both Ukraine and Russia have fluctuating production of grains, but all the fluctuation is export -- say for Ukraine, between exporting 13 million tons out of 40 million and 3 million out of 30 million.

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.
by DoDo on Mon Apr 7th, 2008 at 01:26:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]
But that would have a big impact on global grain prices.

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Apr 7th, 2008 at 01:51:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Droughts and over-hot spells have produced fluctuations in wheat harvests, not just in Ukraine, but in Canada, the EU, and above all Australia, over the last few years. This is the main single reason for high wheat prices.

When locusts move on, they leave nothing behind
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Mon Apr 7th, 2008 at 03:42:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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