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The only thing I am saying is that we are as yet far from "peak land" use as far as agriculture is concerned, and so far relatively cheap oil has made biofuel largely uneconomic.  That will change as oil becomes scarcer and prices rise - which from a conservation and climate change point of view is not necessarily a bad thing.

There are also newer crops being developed which can produce more oil equivalent per acre and with less input and conversion costs.  There will also be strategic benefits from the point of view of sustainability, employment creation, import substitution and lesser dependence on oil from unreliable trading partners.

However all of this is tinkering at the edges because bio-fuel will never be able to replace oil at current usage levels and so will probably be used more in Jet fuel and high end applications where battery/fuel cell power/weight ratios and storage requirements make other non-oil solutions unviable.

The biggest strategic waste of oil is probably now in home heating where better insulation/zero carbon frontprint housing/workplaces should have been made mandatory for all old/new houses a long time ago.  That in itself would probably save more oil than bio-fuels ever will.

"It's a mystery to me - the game commences, For the usual fee - plus expenses, Confidential information - it's in my diary..."

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot dotty communists) on Mon Apr 7th, 2008 at 12:56:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Bio-fuel won't become jet fuel. I believe we had a diary on this, at the time of Branson's publicity stunt. Energy yield.

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.
by DoDo on Mon Apr 7th, 2008 at 01:02:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]
What's the alternative when oil runs out?

"It's a mystery to me - the game commences, For the usual fee - plus expenses, Confidential information - it's in my diary..."
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot dotty communists) on Mon Apr 7th, 2008 at 02:45:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Synthetic hydrocarbons, blended wing aircraft designs and lower flight speeds.

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Apr 7th, 2008 at 02:53:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]
... from wind and solar power?


Utsukushikereba sore de ii
by BruceMcF (agila61 at netscape dot net) on Mon Apr 7th, 2008 at 02:55:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It will be very expensive, but you can do it from CO2 and water.

Synthetic fuels, just like hydrogen fuel cells, are not an energy source but an energy storage and transportation medium.

Liquid fuels are very useful because of their energy density (per volume or per weight), their stability, and their portability. I don't think they're going away. But they may become expensive and suitable only for niche uses such as off-road vehicles or where autonomy is paramount over fuel efficiency.

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Apr 7th, 2008 at 03:00:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]
We have a claim that dimethyl ether "is the perfect fuel". There are various ways to produce Dimethyl ether from simple molecules.

Wikipedia: Dimethyl ether

Conventional DME production uses the methanol dehydration method.[1] For mass production of DME as a fuel other methods are being considered, the main one being DME synthesis from hydrogen and CO gas, also known as syngas.[2]

DME can be produced from methanol by combining two methanol molecules to produce a DME molecule and a water molecule.[3] This is a reversible reaction.[3] This can be shown in the following equation:

methanol → dimethyl ether + water
2CH3OH → CH3OCH3 + H2O

There are various companies developing this method of DME production, the most active one being JFE Holding in Japan.[citation needed] The DME-synthesis method has a better overall efficiency because with methanol dehydration,[citation needed] the methanol is firstly produced from a base source such as LPG, NG or coal via synthesis and then this is converted into DME.[citation needed] This method attempts to cut out the intermediate methanol production and produce DME from LPG, NG, coal or even biomass in one process.[citation needed]



When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Apr 7th, 2008 at 03:13:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It's a matter of how much energy you can store for a given mass of carbon.

On a HHV basis per kg carbon:








Methane  74.23 MJ
Propane  61.64 MJ
Butane    59.95 MJ
DME      60.85 MJ
Diesel    56.16 MJ (n-dodecane)
Biomass  ~40 MJ (with 20MJ/kg dry and 50% carbon content)

DME is indeed a decent contender as an energy carrier, not as good as methane but on par with LPG. The real upsides are:

  • Its handling is similar to LPG and it can be stored as a liquid in low pressure tanks. Big difference with methane (very high pressures or cryo).
  • It works as a nearly straight fuel for HDI diesel engines, contrary to LPG. It just requires a lubricant additive for high pressure injectors.
  • Its thermochemical synthesis can be very selective, compared to, say, a straight-chain alkane synthesis by Fischer-Tropsch, which yields a little bit of everything from methane to heavy waxes.


Facts, selfish little bastards. They don't even care about your feelings.
by Francois in Paris on Mon Apr 7th, 2008 at 10:14:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Mmm, dummkopf.

Auto-format doesn't like my tables.


Facts, selfish little bastards. They don't even care about your feelings.

by Francois in Paris on Mon Apr 7th, 2008 at 10:16:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Am I right in presuming that if it starts with bio-coal, it would be less energy intensive than starting from CO2?

The increasing cost of both aviation gasoline and jet fuel will be a worry for the Eastern Caribbean states ... I was always intrigued by the possibilities for Ground Effect aircraft to provide more fuel efficient inter-island connections. But in any event, that is a transport task where autonomy is fairly crucial.


Utsukushikereba sore de ii

by BruceMcF (agila61 at netscape dot net) on Mon Apr 7th, 2008 at 03:23:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Plants are a way to use solar energy to produce bio-coal from CO2.

CO2 is an end-product of combustion while coal is not, so it obviously takes more energy to make fuel from CO2 than from coal.

That Ground Effect aircrat is just cool.

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Apr 7th, 2008 at 03:33:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]
... I couldn't see any way of getting around the thermodynamics that some form of bio-coal process is the most direct conversion of biomass to combustible fuel, and therefore if done efficiently the process with the best potential EROI, but then I'm not an engineer.

And there is also the question of what is the most effective co-generation with the exhaust gas, after catalytic conversion of pollutants. If that is a useful input into a synthetic hydrocarbon process, that might be very appealing, since the bio-coal itself is such an appealing complement to sustainable "use them or lose them" renewable sources of electricity.


Utsukushikereba sore de ii

by BruceMcF (agila61 at netscape dot net) on Mon Apr 7th, 2008 at 06:00:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]
... cool. After taking the local mailboat between Grenada and Cariacou, and the inter-island mailboat between Grenada and St. Vincent, with the wonderful seas over the channel between Grenada and Cariacou (Cariacou is really the southernmost of the Grenadines, even if it is politically a dependency of Grenada) that the locals call "Kick 'em Jenny", I always thought that a Ground Effect plane would be a more effective way of providing a bus service between the islands.

And that was just from pictures and articles in the press. When I went looking for an article on the concept and stumbled on that PR clip, I knew I had my link.

Of course, in terms of the Midnight Thought on the Arc of the Sun (8 April 08), the main relevance in Africa is for express transport along major rivers and lakes, focusing the express travel on the same route that the much slower barges take and actually connecting the cities and central river ports of the countryside together, rather than having the cities connected by airports and the countryside simply as fly-over country.


Utsukushikereba sore de ii

by BruceMcF (agila61 at netscape dot net) on Tue Apr 8th, 2008 at 09:52:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]
And land transport and ships, which can be lived with if one must, even if addicts of this latest civilisation drug would have withdrawal effects.

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.
by DoDo on Mon Apr 7th, 2008 at 05:15:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]
we are as yet far from "peak land" use as far as agriculture is concerned

In the EU 27, I don't think you've made a case for this. We don't have that much spare land.

20-25 million hectares (DoDo) of Russian land of unspecified quality  may provide some biofuels. But you can't just count it all in immediately as half the EU's 10% needs -- as I said above, for biofuel production it needs to be prime arable with the right climate (plus irrigation for maize), to be easily mechanisable (ie flat) and with easy transport infrastructure, and land possessing these qualities needs to be grouped together in the same region to justify industrial investment and to facilitate export of the finished product. There are constraints here that mean it will provide far from 5% of the EU's current consumption, without adding Russia's own consumption in there (since we're envisaging an end-game scenario with little or no liquid fossile fuels).

When locusts move on, they leave nothing behind

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Mon Apr 7th, 2008 at 03:38:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The article also quotes the Russian minister with an exorbitant price tag needed to develop those lands (In which I presume rising oil prices weren't even factored in), but I don't know past ruble-Forint-€ exchange rates.

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.
by DoDo on Mon Apr 7th, 2008 at 05:19:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The numbers are: tripling the annual agriculture budget to 600 billion rubles = 4500 billion Ft, the latter must have been around €18 billion.

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.
by DoDo on Mon Apr 7th, 2008 at 05:42:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Biofuel from algae is still not proven to not work.

But the real question is, since when did humans have a fundamental right to jump in a car and drive for hundreds of miles? The whole "personal transportation" concept is really a post-war idea, and not necessary. How far from home did your great-grandfather roam?

by asdf on Mon Apr 7th, 2008 at 08:13:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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