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I was thinking of the EROI. To grow enough maize to make a massive amount of ethanol, you have to grow it in the unsustainable mono-cropped fields, instead of intercropping it with beans and squash, with means putting energy into the fertilizer. I was under the impression that where maize really sags in terms of EROI is when the energy input into the fertilizer is added in.

And without that energy input, there's no way that get 6+t/h. Either you intercrop with a nitrogen fixing legume, and then you are growing the maize in hills rather than flat rows, and the productivity per plant can be good, but the spacing kills the 6+t/h. Or you deplete the nitrogen, and the yield per plant plummets.

Meanwhile, intercropping potatoes in hilled rows with truck gardening crops you can get more than 10 t/h with a rotation.

Certainly, competing in oil-fed agriculture, potatoes are at a disadvantage to maize, but that may be a temporary state of affairs that will pass.


I've been accused of being a Marxist, yet while Harpo's my favourite, it's Groucho I'm always quoting. Odd, that.

by BruceMcF (agila61 at netscape dot net) on Tue Apr 8th, 2008 at 09:23:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]
If you're taking petrochemicals out of the equation, then potatoes would certainly come into their own. Though the Native American hill culture of maize with beans and squash is a good and attractive one. (They used to put down fish offal and build the hills over it).

In petro-farming, maize does call for more nitrogen fertiliser than potatoes. (On the order of, roughly, 300-400 kg/ha N for maize with yields above 10t/ha, while 200 kg/ha N is "enough" for potatoes). While tilling/harvesting will call for more energy in potato culture than maize, particularly with the advent of low- or no-till methods for sowing maize.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue Apr 8th, 2008 at 11:05:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]
See, there you go. My main focus is in areas where petrochemicals were never put into the equation ... the African definition of a farmer is a person with a hoe.

In petro-farming, maize does call for more nitrogen fertiliser than potatoes. (On the order of, roughly, 300-400 kg/ha N for maize with yields above 10t/ha, while 200 kg/ha N is "enough" for potatoes)

And then translate that to energy yield per hectare over energy cost of nitrogen fertiliser per hectare ... on the above:

22.5 t/ha  compared to 6.8 t/ha grain maize!

that is:
44 kg N-fertilizer / ton maize yield for maize
9 kg N-fertilizer / ton maize-equivalent yield for potatoes

I've been accused of being a Marxist, yet while Harpo's my favourite, it's Groucho I'm always quoting. Odd, that.

by BruceMcF (agila61 at netscape dot net) on Tue Apr 8th, 2008 at 11:27:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]
NB, rounding maize down, rounding potatoes up.

I've been accused of being a Marxist, yet while Harpo's my favourite, it's Groucho I'm always quoting. Odd, that.
by BruceMcF (agila61 at netscape dot net) on Tue Apr 8th, 2008 at 11:28:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I was just confirming your point about nitrogen fertiliser being the big energy soak in industrial maize (though note my numbers were for >10t/ha).
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue Apr 8th, 2008 at 11:33:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes, I just working it out in round numbers, rounded conservatively regarding the working hypothesis that N-fertilizer is a big energy cost of maize.

The numbers were the industrial farming ones above, not the kind of hand-worked fields that lie behind in the latest Arc of the Sun diary ... for discussion of targets in the medium term time-frame in the EU or US, industrial farming has to be assumed, though possibly with marginal movement in the direction of sustainability.

I've been accused of being a Marxist, yet while Harpo's my favourite, it's Groucho I'm always quoting. Odd, that.

by BruceMcF (agila61 at netscape dot net) on Tue Apr 8th, 2008 at 11:42:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]

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