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... it was only from about the 14th century that anti-homosexual feelings swept western Europe ...

14th century = Black Death.

Perhaps it is a reason "why" - one scapegoat is as good as another, and the more the merrier.

As to the role of Christianity, it may be as simple as jumping on the bandwagon. The church will always claim to be leading, even if it is following.

by det on Tue Apr 8th, 2008 at 08:58:55 AM EST
In the Romantic Era, the first half of the 19th century, the Church was considered an enemy by nationalists, due to their continued support for the emperors and kings of the time. Today, the opposite is true.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Tue Apr 8th, 2008 at 09:08:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]
By definition the Church Hierarchy always seems to have gotten to a position of prominence by getting into bed with the established elite - and thus opposed to any revolutionary changes.  This can explain its reactionary role in history, but why were gays perceived as a threat?

"It's a mystery to me - the game commences, For the usual fee - plus expenses, Confidential information - it's in my diary..."
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot dotty communists) on Tue Apr 8th, 2008 at 09:22:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Interestingly, this is the point where celibacy was enforced on the catholic priesthood, I remember reading somewhere that it was thought that the black death was evil, sexually transmitted and so it was somewhat embarrassing to have the clergy dropping dead from sexually transmitted evil.

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Tue Apr 8th, 2008 at 11:49:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I think celibacy (I nearly wrote celebrity) was imposed a good deal earlier - towards the end of Roman empire - in most places although not in Britain (no anglo disease then!) but how about straight forward sexual jealousy?  If heteros couldn't have sex any more why let gays have a free lunch?  Was there any concept of an STD then?  When was the connection between sex and babies made?

"It's a mystery to me - the game commences, For the usual fee - plus expenses, Confidential information - it's in my diary..."
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot dotty communists) on Tue Apr 8th, 2008 at 12:02:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Wasn't that after the break-up between Rome and the Eastern Church. When did the Roman Empire end by your reckoning?
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Tue Apr 8th, 2008 at 12:11:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The first bubonic plague of Justinian ... that's when the project of reclaiming the western Mediterranean lands was finally dropped and the Eastern Roman Empire was simply a name for Byzantium (just as the Holy Roman Empire was simply a name for something that was neither Holy nor Roman nor an Empire).


I've been accused of being a Marxist, yet while Harpo's my favourite, it's Groucho I'm always quoting. Odd, that.
by BruceMcF (agila61 at netscape dot net) on Tue Apr 8th, 2008 at 12:22:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]
my understanding is that celibacy became the norm for Priests in the 3/4/5 centuries - i.e. toward the end of the "Western" Roman Empire. That link you gave to Bosman above has more detail - I haven't had time to read it all yet

"It's a mystery to me - the game commences, For the usual fee - plus expenses, Confidential information - it's in my diary..."
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot dotty communists) on Tue Apr 8th, 2008 at 12:32:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]
David Rice presents a comprehensive historical look at celibacy in his book about resigned priests entitled, Shattered Vows. Rice credits Catholic theologian Edward Schillebeeckx in The Church with a Human Face with asserting that clerical celibacy originated in "a partly pagan notion of ritual purity," as Sipe indicates with the aforementioned examples. At the Council of Nicaea in 325, a proposal to require celibacy for all priests was defeated and at the Council of Trullo in 692, marriage rights for priests were reasserted. (Rice page 161.)

Schillebeeckx says that, first in the fourth century came a law that forbade a married priest from having sexual intercourse the night before celebrating the Eucharist. However, when the Western Church began celebrating a daily mass, abstinence became a permanent factor for married priests.

"At the origin of the law of abstinence, and later the law of celibacy," said Schillebeeckx, "we find an antiquated anthropology and ancient view of sexuality." (ibid) Rice follows with a quotation from St. Jerome which expressed the views of both pagans and Christians at the time that, "All sexual intercourse is impure." (ibid)

Because the resulting implication of a priest living with his wife like a brother led many priests into "deplorable situations," in 1139, the Second Lateran Council forbade the marriage of priests altogether and declared all existing marriages involving priests null and void. (ibid)

from here.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Tue Apr 8th, 2008 at 12:36:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Are you sure that quoting St Jérôme is entirely apt here AT ET?

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Mon Apr 21st, 2008 at 03:42:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]
There were also financial reasons. Property laws meant that property was passed on to offspring.

If there were no offspring, the Church could claim a priest's estate after his death.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Mon Apr 21st, 2008 at 04:33:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I've heard it said that the tradition within the British aristocracy used to be the first son to inherit, the second to the army, the third to the church.  Though, obviously, Church of England priests may marry, I can't help but wonder if the origin of this is the sort of ploy that reduces threats to the succession of the firstborn.

Offloading excess sons into the church was also a useful ploy in those countries where primogeniture (inheritance by the firstborn son) wasn't the cultural norm.  Assuming shared inheritance, a family's power and wealth is much easier to transmit down the generations if you can shift some of the potential inheritors into celibacy and avowed (if not necessarily practised) poverty.  Daughters might be treated the same way to avoid dowry payments.

by Sassafras on Tue Apr 22nd, 2008 at 02:02:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]
In Britain primogeniture wasn't just a cultural norm, it was the law. You also had entailment to help prevent property leaving the family. Army commissions were an expensive proposition while parishes tended to be in the de facto or de jure disposition of local landowners, along with the income that came with them. Both systems, along with the legal and civil service professions (the other two acceptable careers for noble and gentry sons) provided income and preserved control over the levers of power in the hands of the landed classes. To further help things the British elites routinely incorporated especially successful commoners - not just by ennobling, but by giving or requiring the acquisition of land. That had the effect of limiting bourgeois discontent while making sure that the economic, social, and political interests of the newcomers were aligned with the old elites.

It was a slick system, and it only really began to break down in the last third of the nineteenth century courtesy of expanded suffrage and agricultural depression.

by MarekNYC on Tue Apr 22nd, 2008 at 02:17:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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