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Thanks DoDo, for the illuminating quotes.  It all seems like an accident of history, with homophobia getting lumped in with xenophobia and the many vicious conflicts of the time often directed at foreigners or minorities.  If one supposes that gays were also statistically more likely to enter celibate orders and seek the protection of the Church in so doing, there might also have been some class warfare involved - the Church being seen as part of the Feudal landowning classes and with peasant/serf resentment directed at its wealth.  Later Church defeats in the Crusades might not have helped.  

The Thomist quotations above seem to indicate that the Church was responding to popular prejudice against gays rather than leading the way, but nevertheless that prejudice subsequently became entrenched in Church Dogma because of the politics of the time.  The subsequent attempts to provide Biblical justification for the prejudice against gays (and Jews) may have been more a consequence of the printing press/Gutenberg Bible and the rise of Protestant fundamentalism.  Fierce competition between sects may have resulted in very strenuous attempts to enforce conformity/uniformity/solidarity within sects with correspondingly fierce condemnations issued toward outsiders/non-conformists.

All in all a pretty sad history of exclusion/internalisation of violence and one being fought in fundamentalist groups to this day.

"It's a mystery to me - the game commences, For the usual fee - plus expenses, Confidential information - it's in my diary..."

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot dotty communists) on Wed Apr 9th, 2008 at 05:52:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]
the Church was responding to popular prejudice against gays rather than leading the way

As my quotes indicate, it was rather more insidious: it exploited popular prejudices to crush popular (and more connected to the populace) rivals to its monopoly over faith, first isolating and then more easily executing them. Tactics not unlike those the Nazis used against communists and Jews.

printing press/Gutenberg Bible and the rise of Protestant fundamentalism.  Fierce competition between sects may have resulted in very strenuous attempts to enforce conformity/uniformity/solidarity within sects with correspondingly fierce condemnations issued toward outsiders/non-conformists.

There was the Spanish (and Italian) Inquisition, too. An escalation of full-blown insanity, when even the descendants of converted Jews and Muslims were sought after.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Wed Apr 9th, 2008 at 07:50:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Were gays a particular target of the inquisition or were they incidental to it?

"It's a mystery to me - the game commences, For the usual fee - plus expenses, Confidential information - it's in my diary..."
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot dotty communists) on Wed Apr 9th, 2008 at 08:15:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Does it matter?

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Wed Apr 9th, 2008 at 08:50:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Does this answer your question?

Spanish Inquisition - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Homosexuality, known at the time as sodomy, was punished by death by civil authorities. It fell under the jurisdiction of the Inquisition only in the territories of Aragon, when, in 1524, Clement VII, in a papal brief, granted jurisdiction over sodomy to the Inquisition of Aragon, whether or not it was related to heresy. In Castile, cases of sodomy were not adjudicated, unless related to heresy. The tribunal of Zaragoza distinguished itself for its severity in judging these offences: between 1571 and 1579 more than 100 men accused of sodomy were processed and at least 36 were executed; in total, between 1570 and 1630 there were 534 trials and 102 executions.[20]



*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Wed Apr 9th, 2008 at 08:59:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I think it matters if, as in this diary, we are trying to understand why homosexuality moved from being exalted in greek civilisation, to being a matter of indifference under the Roman empire, suddenly seemed to become, a capital crime after the 12th. century.  There were vicious power struggles in all periods of history - why did homosexuality become a negative even if it was only being opportunistically and falsely ascribed to a rival group?

The obvious answer would be to blame Christianity, but the Bible wasn't popularly read until later, there doesn't appear to have been any major theological shift until later, and I suspect the Church harboured and protected many gays at the time as is evidenced by the rites of gay marriage described in the diary.  Was homophobia brought in by the Huns and invading tribes from the east who also destroyed Roman civilization (with which the Church was heavily identified).  Was it popular/class resentment against the wealth and power of the (aristocrat) Church within feudal societies?  Was it the need to rebuild populations post multiple wars, disease and famine?

I suspect it was a loss of nerve and leadership by the Church in giving way to popular sentiment or political/economic pressures and who sold out on gays as sacrificial lambs to the slaughter to save their own hide.  The theological justification may have been a later post hoc rationalisation.

"It's a mystery to me - the game commences, For the usual fee - plus expenses, Confidential information - it's in my diary..."

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot dotty communists) on Wed Apr 9th, 2008 at 10:05:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I found this, which might be interesting

With the decline of the Roman Empire, and its replacement by various barbarian kingdoms, a general tolerance (with the sole exception of Visigothic Spain) of homosexual acts prevailed. As one prominent scholar puts it, "European secular law contained few measures against homosexuality until the middle of the thirteenth century." (Greenberg, 1988, 260) Even while some Christian theologians continued to denounce nonprocreative sexuality, including same-sex acts, a genre of homophilic literature, especially among the clergy, developed in the eleventh and twelfth centuries (Boswell, 1980, chapters 8 and 9).

The latter part of the twelfth through the fourteenth centuries, however, saw a sharp rise in intolerance towards homosexual sex, alongside persecution of Jews, Muslims, heretics, and others. While the causes of this are somewhat unclear, it is likely that increased class conflict alongside the Gregorian reform movement in the Catholic Church were two important factors. The Church itself started to appeal to a conception of "nature" as the standard of morality, and drew it in such a way so as to forbid homosexual sex (as well as extramarital sex, nonprocreative sex within marriage, and often masturbation). For example, the first ecumenical council to condemn homosexual sex, Lateran III of 1179, stated that "Whoever shall be found to have committed that incontinence which is against nature" shall be punished, the severity of which depended upon whether the transgressor was a cleric or layperson (quoted in Boswell, 1980, 277). This appeal to natural law (discussed below) became very influential in the Western tradition.




keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Wed Apr 9th, 2008 at 04:29:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The end of the twelfth century and the thirteenth century mark the apex of the church's power in medieval Europe. I wouldn't be amazed if the turn against Homosexuality was a symptom of the need of the dominant institution to enforce and show its power, even in not-precedented ways ; i.e. the church needed everybody to be a sinner to control them, and sodomy was among the sins "created". I think some kings, for example, were accused of sodomy when they were not acting as the church wanted. Philosophical justifications could come afterwards.

Un roi sans divertissement est un homme plein de misères
by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Wed Apr 9th, 2008 at 06:36:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Frank Schnittger:
I suspect it was a loss of nerve and leadership by the Church in giving way to popular sentiment or political/economic pressures and who sold out on gays as sacrificial lambs to the slaughter to save their own hide.  The theological justification may have been a later post hoc rationalisation.
You give the church too much credit - poor priests, they sold out the gays to save their own hide as opposed to they used sexual repression in all forms to advance a political agenda.

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Apr 21st, 2008 at 05:14:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I think it matters if, as in this diary, we are trying to understand why homosexuality moved from being exalted in greek civilisation...

It appears to me that you are looking for a single-step explanation. However, what I see is a process, one that can easily gain its own momentum: first opportunist rhetoric against opponents executed for the sin of hereticism aimed at cutting their popular support, then making homosexuality one of the sins of the heretics, then making homosexuality a marker enough to identify heretics, then homosexuality as a mortal sin on its own. It was a very similar escalation that took the Spanish Inquisition from the hunt for open heretics to hunt for Jews, then converted Jews, then grandsons of converted Jews. So I see your original either-or question as corresponding to different stages of an escalation.

Now, the above was my original view, but considering my own quote on the Spanish Inquisition, some nuance is in place: e.g. apparently, homosexuality used to be judged by 'worldy' courts in most places, thus the anti-gay escalation wasn't even under the full and direct control of the Church.

I suspect it was a loss of nerve and leadership by the Church

Why so lenient? Selling out was nothing unusual in the Dark Ages. Review the history of monastic orders on the verge of being declared heretic, the battles for political control with the Holy Roman Emperors, the Avignon Papacy, the backstabbing of the Temple Knights and so on. Also, publicly sentencing a few hundred homosexuals doesn't mean that their own homosexual priests weren't sheltered on - without publicity.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Tue Apr 22nd, 2008 at 04:19:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Any evidence that gays constituted "rivals to its monopoly over faith"?  I suspect it was more a case of scapegoating/deflecting tensions against a vulnerable minority.  While there may have been individual cases of homosexuality being used as a stick to beat a rival for power, my understanding is that gays did not become an identifiable sub group/sub culture until much later, and never constituted a threat to the Church's hold on the faithful (until now!).

"It's a mystery to me - the game commences, For the usual fee - plus expenses, Confidential information - it's in my diary..."
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot dotty communists) on Wed Apr 9th, 2008 at 08:20:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Any evidence that gays constituted "rivals to its monopoly over faith"?

You misunderstand. Cathars, Bogumils and so were the rivals I meant, and calling them gays was a way to exploit popular homophobia to split these popular non-Church-controlled religious movements from the people, and later to more easily demonise executed 'heretics' before the populace.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Wed Apr 9th, 2008 at 08:49:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Colonialism and homophobia combined:

Colonialism: the real `Apocalypto'

"Furthermore," Mejía concludes, "the conquerors treated `sodomy' as a special Indian sin and hunted it down and punished it as such on a grand scale. They orchestrated crusades like the Holy Inquisition, which began burning sodomites at the stake as a special occasion, as in the memorable auto-da-fé of San Lázaro in Mexico City."

This bloody crusade of terror is confirmed in the colonizers' own words.

Antonio de la Calancha, a Spanish official in Lima, wrote that during Vasco Núñez de Balboa's incursion across Panama, he "saw men dressed like women; Balboa learnt that they were sodomites and threw the king and forty others to be eaten by his dogs, a fine action of an honorable and Catholic Spaniard."

When the Spanish invaded the Antilles and Louisiana, "[T]hey found men dressed as women who were respected by their societies. Thinking they were hermaphrodites, or homosexuals, they slew them."



*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Wed Apr 9th, 2008 at 08:57:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]
that the very same can be applied for Africa is slowly accumulating, but I've not found irrefutable evidence for it so far. I have, however, found many indicators that homosexual behaviour was well integrated in African cultures prior to the white man came along, at least for southern Africa.
by Nomad on Wed Apr 9th, 2008 at 11:33:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]
If one supposes that gays were also statistically more likely to enter celibate orders and seek the protection of the Church in so doing

By the way: does anyone here have sources for the claim that the charge of homosexualism was used against fallen-from-grace monastic orders?

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Wed Apr 9th, 2008 at 07:53:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]

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