European Tribune - Comments - Monday Open Thread

They are everywhere around here too. Bit too expensive for what they are though. I just have a little clio which is fine for the city but also gives me enough space to fit all my shopping and stuff in too.

Ad astra per aspera

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Mon May 12th, 2008 at 12:15:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I don't have a car, and I don't need one. If I found I needed a car for shopping, I have access to car-sharing sites galore. I only ever feel I'd really like to have a car when I need to transport large items, which could not fit inside one of these smart cars, unless they truly are clown cars with magically accommodatingly huge interiors. There is no way I could justify owning this car.

That fact does not prevent me from wanting one, however. :)

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.

by poemless on Mon May 12th, 2008 at 12:24:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I don't think car sharing has caught on round here.

I think Smart cars are quite cool but not worth the price!

Ad astra per aspera

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Mon May 12th, 2008 at 12:33:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

It's been here for a while - called Mobility

They even have Smart cars, which are actually fun to drive.

by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Mon May 12th, 2008 at 12:45:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Just finished reading the link above. Actually the - car-sharing started in Switzerland in 1987 - I wasn't aware of that and pleasantly surprised.

by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Mon May 12th, 2008 at 12:56:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I'm really very happily surprised how well-received car sharing programs like iGo and Zip-Car have been here. I think I first learned of them about 3 or 4 years ago, and now there are sites on almost every other block in my neighborhood, and that is not an exaggeration. There have also been some sincere attempts to ramp up our public transportation system. Which is at least of the top 3 in the country (not saying much - but you can get anywhere in the city w/o a car). And our mayor is enamoured with the Velib thingy. There is also some discussion of enacting one of those London-type tolls to drive into the city.

Very slowly, and mostly as a result of rising gas prices - not a feeling of responsibility toward the environment, things are changing around here. In another 50 years we may even catch up with Europe. ;)

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.

by poemless on Mon May 12th, 2008 at 12:47:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

In another 50 years we may even catch up with Europe. ;)

Rate we're going, you'll overtake UK in 50 months.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Mon May 12th, 2008 at 01:08:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Yeah, I was surprised by the large, and seemingly growing, number of SUVs over there. That's worrying.

Conservatives want live babies so they can raise them to be dead soldiers. - George Carlin

by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Mon May 12th, 2008 at 01:22:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Smart (Clown) Cars (4.00 / 4)

(mutters darkly) I had my car scraped a couple of weeks ago, and I'm fairly sure the culprit was a HUGE Chrysler that took up so much space I had to slide out the passenger door.

I mean, seriously, when are stupidly big cars going to be prevented from using public spaces?

by Sassafras on Mon May 12th, 2008 at 03:08:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Very smart woman!

Our knowledge has surpassed our wisdom. -Charu Saxena.

by metavision on Mon May 12th, 2008 at 12:15:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

LOL (4.00 / 7)

A Parisian could park a normal sized car in the space where that Smart is.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Mon May 12th, 2008 at 12:31:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

LOL??? (none / 0)

Because it is a normal sized parking space. It's the car that's small.

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.

by poemless on Mon May 12th, 2008 at 12:48:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: LOL??? (4.00 / 3)

You haven't seen Parisian parking, have you?

"What is zees space of parking you speak of?"

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Mon May 12th, 2008 at 12:51:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: LOL??? (none / 1)

I suppose I have, but haven't paid any attention to it. I suspect that in all large cities there is probably a "where there is a will there is a way" mentality with parking spots, which are generally in very short supply.

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.

by poemless on Mon May 12th, 2008 at 12:54:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

In Paris (4.00 / 2)

It is a crime to park your car in the middle of a big space. You park on one side, so that another car can squeeze in.

The penalty for not doing this is that your car will be pushed until another car can squeeze in (bumpers are very useful in Paris).

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Mon May 12th, 2008 at 01:14:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Yeah, they're starting to pop up here, too. And they're not expensive. About $11k, I believe, which is just above Hyundai/Kia territory. If that new battery technology they developed at Stanford gets ramped up, I think these could turn into the first truly mainstream electric cars for city-dwellers.

Conservatives want live babies so they can raise them to be dead soldiers. - George Carlin

by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Mon May 12th, 2008 at 12:51:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Smart (Clown) Cars (4.00 / 4)

Oh, and they're very safe, too, from what I've read. I think Mercedes engineers them. Pretty impressive.

Conservatives want live babies so they can raise them to be dead soldiers. - George Carlin

by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Mon May 12th, 2008 at 12:52:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

And (4.00 / 2)

they are Made in France. Really.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Mon May 12th, 2008 at 01:10:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: And (4.00 / 3)

But invented in Switzerland - really! :-)

by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Mon May 12th, 2008 at 01:11:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Indeed (4.00 / 5)

Europe in action.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Mon May 12th, 2008 at 01:15:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

once again... (4.00 / 4)

...we're.so.doomed...

Europeans think a hundred miles is a long way. Americans think a hundred years is a long time.

by Bernard on Mon May 12th, 2008 at 04:02:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: And (none / 1)

Ultimately either they'll need to be made here, as we're seeing with Priuses (Prii?), or the import quotas will need to be dropped if the hope is to make it a mainstream car, as I think it might very well become (again, with city-dwellers who aren't lugging kids and groceries around). In any case, I hope Smart will roll out a lot of them.

Conservatives want live babies so they can raise them to be dead soldiers. - George Carlin

by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Mon May 12th, 2008 at 01:18:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: And (none / 1)

You might be surprised how much stow-away space there is in Smart. There is definitely enough space for groceries, though not for kids. However, they are now also building bigger models, for 4 people.

by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Mon May 12th, 2008 at 01:25:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: And (none / 1)

There is a 4-door Smart with a back seat.

Hey, Grandma Moses started late!

by LEP (rafifoon@yahoo.com) on Mon May 12th, 2008 at 01:31:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: And (none / 1)

There ya go. They don't show one on the Smart website, or at least they didn't back when I looked at it. A four-door with something approaching similar mileage would be a huge hit.

Conservatives want live babies so they can raise them to be dead soldiers. - George Carlin

by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Mon May 12th, 2008 at 01:40:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: And (4.00 / 2)

The Smart ForFour (geddit) was right at the top of my list when I had to replace my car last summer. But the emissions aren't impressive compared to the two-seater-or to other cars in its class.

According to this, the emissions for the 1.3 litre petrol version are 138g CO₂/km. That wouldn't even qualify for the
UK tax break for low-emission cars, which kicks in at under 120g/km.

The 1.3 litre Yaris diesel I bought instead emits 117g/km. As much as 60mpg on a carefully driven long run. It isn't, of course, fair to make a direct comparison between petrol and diesel. But I had a wide choice of small cars under the 120g/km threshold.

by Sassafras on Mon May 12th, 2008 at 02:20:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: And (4.00 / 2)

I've had a Yaris diesel for 2 1/2 years, Great car.

Hey, Grandma Moses started late!

by LEP (rafifoon@yahoo.com) on Mon May 12th, 2008 at 02:50:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: And (none / 1)

Best of the near-dozen I drove :)

by Sassafras on Mon May 12th, 2008 at 03:11:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: And (none / 0)

I learnt to drive in a Yaris and really loved it. I'd love to have one but it wasn't in my price range, so it's hello Clio for me.

Ad astra per aspera

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Mon May 12th, 2008 at 03:28:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: And (none / 1)

Mine isn't new... :)

by Sassafras on Mon May 12th, 2008 at 03:31:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: And (none / 1)

I couldn't find any second hand! Didn't have long to look though.

Ad astra per aspera

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Mon May 12th, 2008 at 04:01:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: And, one more time.. (4.00 / 3)

...the Toyota Yaris is also manufactured in France, near Lille. Darn, we're.so.doomed...

Europeans think a hundred miles is a long way. Americans think a hundred years is a long time.

by Bernard on Mon May 12th, 2008 at 04:05:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: And (4.00 / 2)

Fortunately, my old car had the grace to give up in the school holidays. I tracked the Yaris down on the internet, but it took some time. There was just one for sale, the age I could afford and the engine I wanted, within a 100 mile radius.

Fortunately, it was "only" about 30 miles away...

by Sassafras on Mon May 12th, 2008 at 04:16:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: And (none / 1)

I am happy with my SEAT Arosa, which I now had for 5 years.

by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Mon May 12th, 2008 at 03:26:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: And (none / 0)

The Arosa, along with the Twingo and the Cinquecento are the three cars that keep catching my eye, even though I'm not in the market for one. And maybe the Suzuki Alto.

Our knowledge has surpassed our wisdom. -Charu Saxena.

by metavision on Mon May 12th, 2008 at 06:09:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

They should get better mileage though.

Lot of them out here in the bay area too.

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Mon May 12th, 2008 at 01:09:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

What's the mileage -- about 60?

Conservatives want live babies so they can raise them to be dead soldiers. - George Carlin

by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Mon May 12th, 2008 at 01:20:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

combined its published at only 50.4, that's pitiful for its size and weight

thats 10 mpg less than my 4 year old polo, and 20 less than a new one.

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.

by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Mon May 12th, 2008 at 01:59:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The Polo is a diesel car, though, isn't it? I think there are pretty big differences between diesel and regular gasoline on mpg.

Conservatives want live babies so they can raise them to be dead soldiers. - George Carlin

by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Mon May 12th, 2008 at 02:03:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I wanted a Smart but couldn't justify one when I checked the mpgs.

I bought a slightly bigger car with a slightly smaller engine, which seems to work better overall. It doesn't look as trim but you can still pack it full of things - and it will even drive up a hill, if you're not in a hurry.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Mon May 12th, 2008 at 02:07:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Sounds like mine in re: hills. Zero to 60 in ten minutes!

Conservatives want live babies so they can raise them to be dead soldiers. - George Carlin

by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Mon May 12th, 2008 at 02:10:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

well on petrol it's worse than the smart, but why buy the petrol?

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.

by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Mon May 12th, 2008 at 02:16:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Well, it might make sense to use diesel there, but our cars generally run on petrol. I think it's only a few from VW that run diesel.

Conservatives want live babies so they can raise them to be dead soldiers. - George Carlin

by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Mon May 12th, 2008 at 02:24:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Yeah, it's worse than the old 1990 Geo Metro, and worse than compact diesels. It's down to manufacturers not wanting to give up the horsepower.

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Mon May 12th, 2008 at 02:05:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I've been overtaken by Smart cars on the autobahn near Koeln. They can get to quite a speed if you wind them up enough.

by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Mon May 12th, 2008 at 02:23:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]