European Tribune

Display:
My experience is that nobody in Europe wants American conditions. If you read ultra neoliberals like Hans-Werner Sinn, and look to his concrete policy proposals, the US democrats are economic a hard right party (and yes, including Barak Obama) even compared to him.

That is contrary to my experience. In point of fact, the Danish PM's son recently returned from a visit to the Great Neighbour to the West and wrote a book that was - according to the reviews - one long cheerleading exercise for the American way of life and the American economic model.

We have hardline neolibs pushing for flat taxes - which in fact means regressive taxes since there are a number of poll taxes that they are not suggesting that we do away with.

We have hardline neolibs who want to privatize power supply, public transit, education and sometimes even drinking water!

Further, I think that various ETers have made a very compelling case that the UK is - in terms of foreign and economic policy - the 51st state of the Union. So no, I think that there is a clear and present danger.

Not that that precludes ET being populated by salon socialists, of course...

- Jake

Ceterum censeo Chicago esse delendam

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 08:20:29 PM EST
Add to this the new entrants to the east, among whom such thoughts and ideologies are not just familiar, but animating as well.

The US may not have a properly flat tax (though the effect is somewhat similar once all layers of taxes are accounted for) but you find this in many nations in the East.

by redstar on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 09:15:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]
People are tempted by "great" examples. America is still a big success example to most, better than anything else. Never mind that the example is sustained by more people working harder for less and less, by desperations of broken dreams, by one more leverage of presumed future earnings. People still aspire for a 20-room mansion in a gated community, for most expensive cars and yachts. Never mind that paradise dreams come true just a handful, that the distance to there is getting unfairly larger, and more suckers get frustrated. It must be still the best of the worlds, and the society, the environment, and the future can be at no risk.

Our best arguments are not that attractive. We have to say these rich times will not last long (why not, you looser pessimist?!), the wealth of the few costs much misery to others (surely not more than with socialisms), and our best projects are forgotten (what, those dying Scandinavian models?!). It is not that easy for average minds to realize that limited resources will most likely turn out irreplaceable, power gap manipulates fairness, or that you can be just happy with a well assured health care and secured work prospects.

by das monde on Fri May 16th, 2008 at 02:56:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]
People are tempted by "great" examples. America is still a big success example to most, better than anything else.

"Most" being people who have never actually seen the appalling inequality of the US. And you don't have to go too far to see it: just drive from Palm Springs to Laguna Beach along the California "scenic" route 74 and compare Lake Elsinore, Hemet and Perris with Palm Desert and Orange County.

Then take the Metrolink from Riverside to LA Union Station, walk around downtown, and then ride a bus or walk down Wilshire Boulevard.

I'm sure people can bring up other examples from other states.

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri May 16th, 2008 at 04:59:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]
But, myth is sometimes stronger than reality.

I am reminded of a train trip with three German girls as co-passengers a few years back. They were totally sold on the then current Germany-is-toast moaning in the media. Even while they had rather good lives, with holidays all around the globe. And two of them have been to the USA, and talked about how much better it is in fawning voices. Of course, they have been to the more affluent suburbs where parents applied for exchange student programs or European au-pairs (one of them in Texas I remember), and that's the only part of teir memories they based their overall judgement upon.

Meanwhile, they thought Americans are boorish. So two opposed stereotypes can happily go hand-in-hand.

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.

by DoDo on Sun May 18th, 2008 at 12:21:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]
... the current system is build on burning through non-replaceable fossilized fuels, and your children and grand children will never be able to aspire to the current European quality of life unless Europe shifts to an ecologically sustainable economy embedded with an ecologically sustainable society.

Now, there is much in building an ecologically sustainable society that offers opportunities to re-integrate those left behind by mass media society into actual communities within that society ... and substantial opportunity in building an ecologically sustainable economy to build in a guarantee that everyone has a right to participate in the material provisioning of society.

Indeed, a right to participate through work can join a right to participate in decision making and a right to participate in the fruits of social activity as a foundation that those presently left behind could find very appealing.

Utsukushikereba sore de ii

by BruceMcF (agila61 at netscape dot net) on Fri May 16th, 2008 at 10:14:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Interesting.
My Danish friend Henrik finds the current government to be laughably out of touch with the current trend of Danish opinion. It's a point that we discuss often, as it matters to us both.
I have only his perception FWIW.

"There is mysterious music in democracy, when people decide to believe in themselves." ---Bill Greider, The Nation.
by geezer in Paris (risico at wanadoo(flypoop)fr) on Fri May 16th, 2008 at 12:30:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes and no. They're kinda like McCain on the environment. They are paying lip service to environmentalism. They are doing a lot of greenwashing.

Of course this is laughable if you actually take the time to look at the facts - or even if you have a memory that stretches farther back than about two years. And if the public ever had a good, hard look at their environmental policies, I think that Henrik is right - they would find themselves alienating rather a big chunk of the voters.

But they are very, very good at greenwashing and camouflage. And nobody ever lost an election by underestimating the half-life of public memory.

- Jake

Ceterum censeo Chicago esse delendam

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Fri May 16th, 2008 at 05:04:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Display:
Login
. Make a new account
. Reset password
Recommended Diaries
Recent Diaries
Debates
Campaigns
Occasional Series