European Tribune - Comments - Salon socialism on ET. A provocation

Salon socialism on ET. A provocation | 291 comments (291 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

Re: Salon socialism on ET. A provocation (none / 1)

What is the difference?

(I could think of several, but there is so much overlap for all metrics I can think of that it almost makes the distinction academic.)

- Jake

If you only spend 20 minutes of the rest of your life on economics, go spend them here.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Fri May 16th, 2008 at 08:00:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Salon socialism on ET. A provocation (4.00 / 7)

If you're fundamentally dependent on someone giving you a job, you're working class. Middle class requires some significant economic independence. Conflating the two has been a great victory for the right.

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Fri May 16th, 2008 at 08:05:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Salon socialism on ET. A provocation (4.00 / 2)

That's a difference between the Victorian Era definition of "middle class" in the UK - which included Ireland - and the way it caught on in the Continent. In French, your definition would correspond to "profession libérale", whereas "Class Moyenne" refers to anyone with income allowing for a similar way of life as that afforded to those with median income.

Un roi sans divertissement est un homme plein de misères

by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Fri May 16th, 2008 at 08:11:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Salon socialism on ET. A provocation (none / 1)

Yes, and maybe that distinction is part of what keeps (kept?) the discussion in France a little bit saner. It's lost entirely here.

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Fri May 16th, 2008 at 11:40:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Salon socialism on ET. A provocation (none / 0)

In French, your definition would correspond to "profession libérale", whereas "Class Moyenne" refers to anyone with income allowing for a similar way of life as that afforded to those with median income.

The same distinction is made in Germany and Hungary, though the difference of the terms isn't commonly stressed.

_{*Lunatic*, n.

One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

by DoDo on Sun May 18th, 2008 at 11:02:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Salon socialism on ET. A provocation (none / 1)

That's an interesting definition. I used to go by the definition that the underclass was the non-tenured worker (McJobs) and the middle class was the tenured worker (officers, policemen, professors, tenured civil servants). The upper class was the fatcats.

But I can see the advantages of your way of defining things.

- Jake

If you only spend 20 minutes of the rest of your life on economics, go spend them here.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Fri May 16th, 2008 at 05:12:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Salon socialism on ET. A provocation (4.00 / 2)

Here's a proposition: it's not, in the main, the middle class by my definition that's suffering in the US these days. It's the middle income group that's being crushed. i don't know if it's true, but I have a strong suspicion ...

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Fri May 16th, 2008 at 05:18:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Salon socialism on ET. A provocation (none / 1)

Your definition is as well what Fricke was talking about in the FTD.

Der Amerikaner ist die Orchidee unter den Menschen
Volker Pispers

by Martin (weiser.mensch(at)googlemail.com) on Fri May 16th, 2008 at 05:19:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Salon socialism on ET. A provocation | 291 comments (291 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

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