European Tribune - Comments - Salon socialism on ET. A provocation

Salon socialism on ET. A provocation | 291 comments (291 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

Re: As has been noted many times (none / 0)

One can't oppose to give non-white Germans citizenship, because if they are Germans they have citizenship. That's the definition of German.

Der Amerikaner ist die Orchidee unter den Menschen
Volker Pispers

by Martin (weiser.mensch(at)googlemail.com) on Fri May 16th, 2008 at 06:16:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: As has been noted many times (4.00 / 2)

Where are the PNing police when you need them?

Are you really excusing that appalling piece of racism that was(?) German citizenship policy?

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Fri May 16th, 2008 at 06:17:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: As has been noted many times (none / 0)

I don't know what is PNing police.

And yes, I fully excuse what I know about the German citizenship policy as non racistic.

Der Amerikaner ist die Orchidee unter den Menschen
Volker Pispers

by Martin (weiser.mensch(at)googlemail.com) on Fri May 16th, 2008 at 06:22:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: As has been noted many times (none / 1)

German citizenship policy was basically that it didn't matter whether you were born in Germany or spoke German, the criterion for citizenship was being born to German parents. Are you unfamiliar with the debate around ius solis and ius sanguinis, or the distinction between civic and ethnic nationality?

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri May 16th, 2008 at 06:26:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: As has been noted many times (none / 0)

Sure I know that. And I don't see anything racistic in the ius sanguinis. For somebody born in Germany it was always possible to get the citizenship when he was adult and still living in Germany.
German citizenship is no race, but a legal status. Having specific rights for citizens over non-citizens is nothing unusual. Otherwiese you could vote in the German Bundestags election, because Germans living in Britain can vote for the Bundestag.

Der Amerikaner ist die Orchidee unter den Menschen
Volker Pispers

by Martin (weiser.mensch(at)googlemail.com) on Fri May 16th, 2008 at 06:35:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: As has been noted many times (none / 1)

It's not the positive granting of citizenship to descendants of germans but the denial of citizenship to people born in Germany who speak German but happen not to be descended from ur-Germans that was a problem and has partly been solved.

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri May 16th, 2008 at 06:44:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: As has been noted many times (none / 0)

You make it too easy. The Völkisch basis of citizenship is about race in the end. That someone can get the citizenship only when grown up is one difference. But you forget about the Spätaussiedler, people who got automatic citizenship upon arrival based on German ancestors, even if they never lived in Germany and got neither the language nor the culture from parents. The same people could also get double citizenship in some cases.

_{*Lunatic*, n.

One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

by DoDo on Sun May 18th, 2008 at 10:06:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: As has been noted many times (none / 0)

PN is an abbreviation of a Finnish expression which literally means having carnal knowledge of punctuation symbols. We use it on ET to mean hairsplitting or nitpicking.

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri May 16th, 2008 at 06:58:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: As has been noted many times (none / 0)

Yes, that makes perfect sense. If you don't take the rules of logic into account.

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.

by poemless on Fri May 16th, 2008 at 06:31:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Salon socialism on ET. A provocation | 291 comments (291 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

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