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Except that, as I said the other day, we need money to fix our infrastructure and bring down the budget deficit.  And people need to pay for the damage they're doing.  Nobody wants to pay the gas tax, and then they gripe about what awful conditions the roads are in, and they look on in horror at bridges collapsing.  Someone does need to say, at some point, "Cough it up."

Conservatives want live babies so they can raise them to be dead soldiers. - George Carlin
by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Tue May 6th, 2008 at 08:39:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm afraid that bringing down the budget deficit will not convince those people. Especially, it seems some are really close to underwater and have not too much choice. That is exactly the reason why there are people calling it 'elitist' to propose gas tax increases. You think about the future, if you can deal with the present. The credit crisis has made it more expensive for quite a number of people to pay for their mortgage (ARMs are up). Families with low earnings suffer anyhow from higher food and gas prices. Default does not only mean a financial loss, but is associated with a social stigma and the feeling of defeat. Health care costs are going to go up further.
To tell those people you need to invest in better streets and lower budget deficit now (and as somebody who will not be affected), maybe seen as 'elitist' (which is not the same as wrong).

Der Amerikaner ist die Orchidee unter den Menschen
Volker Pispers
by Martin (weiser.mensch(at)googlemail.com) on Tue May 6th, 2008 at 09:45:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Which is why the right plan, if you wanted to go that route, would be to give people within certain income limits a rebate/subsidy, and then raise the gas tax on those who can afford it.

Conservatives want live babies so they can raise them to be dead soldiers. - George Carlin
by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Tue May 6th, 2008 at 09:56:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes, and the rebate/subsidy could be used on either gasoline or on public transport tickets.


I've been accused of being a Marxist, yet while Harpo's my favourite, it's Groucho I'm always quoting. Odd, that.
by BruceMcF (agila61 at netscape dot net) on Wed May 7th, 2008 at 01:55:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Like food stamps, but for transport?
by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Wed May 7th, 2008 at 07:51:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes, except modernized ... with a form of debit card rather than paper voucher, so that there is no stigma attached to using them.

Indeed, establishing the system on the rationale of helping low and moderated income households cope with rising gas prices puts the system in place for addressing regressive impacts of a carbon cap and auction system.

And by having funds that can be used to subsidize public transport ticket makes it much easier for public transport authorities to sell travel passes rather than per trip tickets, for a reduction in ticketing costs and ticketing time overheads. This is especially important given that there will still be need to resort to substantial reliance on electric trolley buses at the bottom level of the transport hierarchy in a policy to establish a network of infill suburban villages amongst the suburban sprawl.


I've been accused of being a Marxist, yet while Harpo's my favourite, it's Groucho I'm always quoting. Odd, that.

by BruceMcF (agila61 at netscape dot net) on Wed May 7th, 2008 at 08:58:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Don't we use the debit things for food stamps in a lot of states now?  I know FEMA was using them for aide after Katrina.

Conservatives want live babies so they can raise them to be dead soldiers. - George Carlin
by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Wed May 7th, 2008 at 09:42:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Debit cards replaced physical coupons several years back ... back when I was still in Oz.

And many recipients prefer the cards to food stamps per se for the reason cited above ... they reduce the stigma of using food assistance.


I've been accused of being a Marxist, yet while Harpo's my favourite, it's Groucho I'm always quoting. Odd, that.

by BruceMcF (agila61 at netscape dot net) on Wed May 7th, 2008 at 11:14:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]
In Sweden, we have a movement for free public transport. Gets rid of fees, gives everyone freedom of movement in the cities, better for environment etc. (Should be noted that in Sweden, public transport is mostly tax financed anyway.) Totally removes stigma of assistance.

A vote for PES is a vote for EPP! A vote for EPP is a vote for PES! Support the coalition, vote EPP-PES in 2009!
by A swedish kind of death on Wed May 7th, 2008 at 12:31:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]
... public transport in most of the US.

If we get there, then yes, the case can be made that there are strong reasons to go even further, and instead of subsidizing the auto transport system as we do today, shift that to subsidizing public transport instead.

But as an across the board principle, a level playing field would be such a step forward for public transport in the US, that I'm happy to focus on that at present.


I've been accused of being a Marxist, yet while Harpo's my favourite, it's Groucho I'm always quoting. Odd, that.

by BruceMcF (agila61 at netscape dot net) on Wed May 7th, 2008 at 01:35:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I think ridership in Hasselt (Belgium) went up by a factor of around 10 when they introduced this.
by gk (g k quattro due due sette "at" gmail.com) on Wed May 7th, 2008 at 03:01:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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