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As soon as a trend gets established, speculation follows. The only way to contain that is to tighten margin requirements at commodity futures exchanges.

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed May 7th, 2008 at 08:11:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Speculation in futures has little or no effect on the spot market, any more than if I bet you $1000 that oil would be over $150 per bbl by the end of the year.

And if there were games going on in the spot/forward market we'd see the market in a big backwardation.

I don't know what it is, but I feel a bit like the guys in the Western who say: "It's quiet - too quiet..." - and then one of them gets an arrow in the back.

My take is that there's some weird shit going on in the market - it probably involves BP and Goldman Sachs - and it will end in tears before bedtime....

"Any economic unit can emit money. The serious problem is to get it accepted" Hyman Minsky

by ChrisCook (cojockathotmaildotcom) on Wed May 7th, 2008 at 10:40:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Also, briefly, when are futures contracts realized? By "realized" I mean the GAAP sense of completed transaction of the physical product.

Ordinarily, I'd expect possesion would occur as dated, but it occurs to me any one contract could be structured so subordinate lots(?) deliver along a timeline ending at maturity.

Finance gives me gas.

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.

by Cat on Wed May 7th, 2008 at 02:48:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]
"backward"  means the futures are lower than the prompt since "normal" = contango is what one expects in a fully supplied market.

Normally the future price of a commod would be the price today + the cost of storage, interest etc etc.  If you can actually achieve that, traders will talk about "full contango".  That's when speculators will really buy and warehouse material since they have a risk free bet (buy prompt, hedge way forward and hope something comes along to make the prompt jump up).

WTI goes off the board roughly the 20th of the month prior.  has to do with pipeline scheduling.  NYMEX products go off the board the last biz day of the month.  Both are physical settles so if you go off long, you get oil in tank at the defined terminals, with the expectation of scheduling an immediate lift from the seller or into the pipe if WTI.

Brent is just a cash settle based on journalists' assessments of the market.  Which is one main reason it's a crap contract.  But since physical brent trades in 500 KB lots it's difficult to make a contract with physical settles.

by HiD on Wed May 7th, 2008 at 04:50:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Thank you very much.

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.
by Cat on Wed May 7th, 2008 at 06:28:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Futures prices, not spot prices, are an input into the medium-term planning of firms who are affected by the price of commodities. Also, it would seem that they can change expectations, which should affect spot prices as a second order effect; but I'll take your word for it since you're the one who used to work at a commodities exchange.

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu May 8th, 2008 at 03:09:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]

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