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Right. Well I don't see local food self-sufficiency being the slightest bit efficient in lots of the world. Ireland would probably have to convert to something like a potato monoculture again, for a start. Which has its own problems ...

Trade is not intrinsically a bad thing: moving flour slowly (train and sail boat will do!) from continental Europe to Ireland and shipping meat back seems sustainable if you're not assuming civilisational collapse. Flying lettuce around the planet is another issue, of course.

I guess what I'm thinking here is some form of subsidiarity for food - it should be produced as locally as makes sense. I suspect a lot of this would be sorted out simply by pricing the externalities into the shipping and production methods. Maybe a properly regulated market is the best way of doing the job?

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Thu May 8th, 2008 at 07:23:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]
What does the slightest bit efficient mean?

What is efficiency?

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Thu May 8th, 2008 at 09:27:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Efficient in the sense of getting as much food output as we can from the available resources.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Thu May 8th, 2008 at 09:42:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Then I don't see what is inefficient about people producing part of their needs (as far as possible) where they are, and with encouraging small farming in the less developed countries rather than see the land abandoned and the cities grow. While obviously understanding that what can be produced is more limited in some places than others, and without proposing to eliminate trade in favour of "autarchy".

Understanding also that regional policy, (eg CAP), can deal with the coordination of a lot of the differences between local capacities.

How far do you think that by "efficiency", you are in fact thinking of comparative advantage?

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Thu May 8th, 2008 at 11:57:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Being locally self-sufficient means (to me) producing all their food locally, which is what I don't think is practical.

Isn't comparative advantage more-or-less about efficiency?

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Thu May 8th, 2008 at 12:09:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I said "local and regional". I don't expect it's possible in most cases to be locally self-sufficient. I do think the EEC attained a fair degree of self-suffiency through the CAP (with problems and unintended consequences, sure).

What kind of efficiency is comparative advantage about?

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Thu May 8th, 2008 at 12:25:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Local food self-sufficiency is not an absolute requirement, its a benchmark. Every locality should pursue as much of the goal as they can, because for those areas that will certainly fall short, the amount by which they fall short will determine the amount by which surplus locales must exceed their requirements.

However, an urban market ... whether a market in a city or the market consisting of a small town ... is an essential element in sustainable agrarian development, so the level at which food self-sufficiency becomes a goal to consider adopting is the local region, consisting of an urban core and its rural hinterland.

Of course, legalists always want boundaries for definitions, and so units of analysis like local regions give them hissy fits, because its hierarchical ... one local region consisting of a small town and surrounding countryside is part of the hinterland consisting of a small city and its surround small towns and countryside, and that is part of the hinterland of a large city and its surrounding small cities and their surrounding small towns and countryside.

And of course in many high income nations we have planted large, difficult to heat and cool single occupancy homes directly across that countryside, so we have to learn how to plant around those kinds of obstacles.

Every large nation must aim for food self-sufficiency. All of its main regions must aim for as much food self-sufficiency as it can achieve, and some of its regions must arrive at a surplus to the extent that some of its regions fall short.

And every local region must aim to be an active center of agriculture development in its rural hinterland ... even if the peasantry in the rural hinterland presently drive SUV's to work in cubicles eighty kilometres away.


I've been accused of being a Marxist, yet while Harpo's my favourite, it's Groucho I'm always quoting. Odd, that.

by BruceMcF (agila61 at netscape dot net) on Sat May 10th, 2008 at 08:28:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]

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