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You're on your own among France's elite
By Olivia Chavassieu, Sydney Morning Herald

In the first of an occasional series on foreign universities, Olivia Chavassieu describes how tough it is to reach the top in the French system.

I did everything I could to avoid attending university. In my family the grandes ecoles, or elite schools, is what you aim for. University is where you end up if you fail to get into one...

My idea of university was negative. All I had heard was that the organisation was chaotic and that the studies themselves were not very challenging.

So in October 2005 I went to the Sorbonne in Paris with a heavy heart. Even though I was dragging my feet on my way in, I was amazed by the place...

However, on that first day I had a rude awakening. Hundreds of students were trying to find their way in the maze, and hundreds more were queuing and looked as though they had been waiting forever. The first experience at the Sorbonne will always be a painful introduction to French administration.

Before I came to Australia I had never heard of orientation week, campus tours or student services. Everyone is on their own at the Sorbonne; nobody will answer your questions, and nobody will let you know if you have made a mistake. The first you will know about it is at the end of the year, when you have missed out on your diploma...

Each of my school years cost €1700, and a full year of enjoyable study at the Sorbonne cost just €320, including insurance fees. Most of the books you do not need to buy as they are all in the library, ready to be borrowed - but watch out for the queues.

Olivia Chavassieu is an intern at the Herald and is completing her master's degree in journalism at the University of Technology, Sydney.

by Magnifico on Mon May 12th, 2008 at 02:13:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]
All articles anout the French educational system are hopelessly confused. It's probably that people cannot get around their heads that France has one of the most ferociously and unabashedly elitist systems - and have trouble fitting the reality of that with all the usual stereotypes about France.

(As a "proof" of how elitist the system is, a new ranking system was built, which simply allocates a point for each Fortune 500 CEO that has a diploma from the relevant university: 5 French Grandes Ecoles are in the top ten using that ranking - which only reflects the fact that the selection process to be part of the French (business) elite takes place at the point of entry into these Ecoles.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Mon May 12th, 2008 at 07:52:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Before I came to Australia I had never heard of orientation week, campus tours or student services. Everyone is on their own at the Sorbonne; nobody will answer your questions, and nobody will let you know if you have made a mistake. The first you will know about it is at the end of the year, when you have missed out on your diploma...
It's the same in Spain and, as far as I know, in Italy and in the Czech Republic. Students in the Anglo countries are so pampered, with their campus tours, their orientation weeks, their faculty mentors, their peer mentors, their student services...

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon May 12th, 2008 at 08:00:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]
What about student unions across Europe?  I know they do exist although it varies a great deal from country to country.  Can they not support better introductions for new enrolments?

Ad astra per aspera
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Mon May 12th, 2008 at 08:55:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The amount of resources commanded by the British student unions (including student union buildings, junior common rooms, etc) is staggering compared to what student unions in Spain have available. The same thing is true in the US.

Plus, in Spain there is a difference between the sindicato de estudiantes (student union, in the "labour movement" sense of "union") and whatever it is that the "student government" is called at each school. The sindicato de estudiantes is a national organization with its own agenda, usually a launchpad for political careers and has fuck-all to do with students.

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon May 12th, 2008 at 09:02:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The same is more or less true of France. I don't think I met many student unionists, when I was a student.

Un roi sans divertissement est un homme plein de misères
by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Mon May 12th, 2008 at 09:09:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]
appear a very Anglo-based concept to me. Even the Dutch system, which does come with orientation weeks and a wide umbrella support system, does not work with a centralized union. Societies are school based and funded by the school and private sponsors. Politically, student representatives from different political flavours, chosen during annual elections, sit on the school and university councils/boards. Hence, it's a two-tract system.

Generally the student societies per school pull the cart during orientation week - also with the ulterior motive to grow membership.

by Nomad on Mon May 12th, 2008 at 09:20:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Generally the student societies per school pull the cart during orientation week - also with the ulterior motive to grow membership.

That's true also in the UK universities, from my (limited) experience.

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon May 12th, 2008 at 09:21:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]
"Students in the Anglo countries are so pampered, with their campus tours, their orientation weeks, their faculty mentors, their peer mentors, their student services... "

One simply expects such services when the cost to attend for a year at even a third rate college is $10,000.

by asdf on Mon May 12th, 2008 at 09:51:33 AM EST
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It was still true when education wasn't just free, but when you (cover your eyes, fans of Darwinian economics) received a stipend to take part in it.

I don't see these services as bad things. The first week on campus is confusing enough for everyone. Having some organisation to make it less confusing can only be good.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Mon May 12th, 2008 at 10:55:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]
They're not bad things: I'm just saying that when I arrived on a UK campus as an exchange student I couldn't figure out what the British students were complaining about.

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon May 12th, 2008 at 10:59:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Someone must have missed the 'Welcome to the UK - complaining is our national sport' line out of the welcome pack.
by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Mon May 12th, 2008 at 12:12:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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