Display:
How expensive does petrol have to become before it's cheaper to buy a new car and/or move than it is to keep paying higher prices?

An efficient new car and/or a move will typically cost thousands, so there isn't a huge amount of elasticity there. Assuming people can do the numbers, the pain has to be severe before they're forced to change. Also a lot of oil goes to industry, which is even less flexible.

So I'm not expecting prices to decrease. It's going to be months before demand reduction in the West has an effect on price, and it's not clear that China and India won't make up the slack regardless.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Tue Jun 10th, 2008 at 06:20:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]
It's not clear that they will either.

People are getting tunnel vision.

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Tue Jun 10th, 2008 at 06:23:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]
China's oil consumption hits record high in Q1_English_Xinhua

    BEIJING, April 29 (Xinhua) -- Soaring oil prices have not slowed China's consumption of oil as statistics show that China's apparent consumption of crude oil and refined oil products both hit record highs in the first quarter of the year.

    According to statistics released Tuesday by the China Petroleum and Chemical Industry Association (CPCIA), China's apparent consumption of oil products composed of gasoline, diesel and kerosene rose by 16.5 percent year on year to 52.73 million tonnes in the first three months, and crude oil, rose by eight percent to91.8 million tonnes.

    The "apparent consumption" represents the sum of net imports and output and could be taken as an index for the real oil consumption excluding inventory.

    The growth of oil products consumption was a record high and much higher than the same period of last year, which was only 3.6 percent, said Shu Zhaoxia, professor of the Economics and Development Research Institute of China Petrochemical Corporation (Sinopec Group). Sinopec Group is China's top oil refiner.

    The growth of crude oil consumption was 2.5 percentage points higher than a year ago.

    State ceilings on prices of domestic oil products was the major reason contributing to China's surging oil consumption in the first quarter.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Tue Jun 10th, 2008 at 06:35:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]
How long can they afford to do that for?
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Tue Jun 10th, 2008 at 06:41:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]
With the huge ocean of dollars that China's currency reserves are floating in, about as long as they want to.
by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Tue Jun 10th, 2008 at 07:17:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Oh, so now I'm not wrong for saying that?

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Jun 10th, 2008 at 07:24:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]
"How expensive does petrol have to become before it's cheaper to buy a new car and/or move than it is to keep paying higher prices?"

In the previous energy crises in the U.S., the problem was not one of high prices but of unavailability. It didn't matter how much money you had, there simply wasn't any gas at the gas station.

In that case, the cost of a newer car is irrelevant.

by asdf on Wed Jun 11th, 2008 at 12:28:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]
That was because the fools interfered with the very efficient gasoline market.

Price controls-> shortages.

There were no price controls during the second oil crisis in 1979, and there were no shortages either.

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.

by Starvid (arvid.hallen at gmail.com) on Wed Jun 11th, 2008 at 07:38:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Price controls without by-fiat rationing creates shortages.

But then again, absence of price controls creates by-wealth rationing.

- Jake

If you only spend 20 minutes of the rest of your life on economics, go spend them here.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Wed Jun 11th, 2008 at 08:26:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]
But without price controls you can still tax the sales and use the proceeds to support those who can't afford the product.

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Jun 11th, 2008 at 08:28:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]
If there is less stuff to go around than people wish to use, you are not going to escape rationing, one way or the other. No amount of moving funny-money around by way of tax-and-subsidise systems will make more stuff in and of itself.

So you'll get a milder form of by-wealth rationing - one in which the people who are flat out of luck are at least compensated for their being flat out of luck.

Did I miss anything?

- Jake

If you only spend 20 minutes of the rest of your life on economics, go spend them here.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Wed Jun 11th, 2008 at 09:05:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Rationing by price is by far the most efficient way of rationing when it comes to gasoline.

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.
by Starvid (arvid.hallen at gmail.com) on Wed Jun 11th, 2008 at 09:28:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Should we look for "efficient", or should we look for "fair"?

After all, no citizen has an innate claim to more of the stuff than any other, given that it's all imported and thus heavilty dependent on public infrastructure and institutions to be available to us...

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Wed Jun 11th, 2008 at 12:55:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Let's not mix up efficiency with fairness. Gasoline is most efficiently distributed using price as the rationing variable, as are almost all goods.

Fairness we get through the progressiveness of the income tax system.

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.

by Starvid (arvid.hallen at gmail.com) on Wed Jun 11th, 2008 at 07:06:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Display:
Login
. Make a new account
. Reset password
Recommended Diaries
Clipping the wings of a judge
by Migeru - Feb 10
31 comments

Hunger March wins PR battle
by DoDo - Feb 9
3 comments

Romania: protests change government
by DoDo - Feb 8
6 comments

Sarkozy: Enemies Ahoy!
by afew - Feb 10
18 comments

Murdoch - Outsourcing and Hubris
by ceebs - Feb 3
18 comments

Obama wins GOP Primaries (to date)
by Frank Schnittger - Feb 8
8 comments

LQD: Unsustainable irrigation
by Melanchthon - Feb 9

Bristol Pound
by ChrisCook - Feb 7
14 comments

Recent Diaries
Sarkozy: Enemies Ahoy!
by afew - Feb 10
18 comments

Clipping the wings of a judge
by Migeru - Feb 10
31 comments

LQD: Unsustainable irrigation
by Melanchthon - Feb 9

Hunger March wins PR battle
by DoDo - Feb 9
3 comments

Obama wins GOP Primaries (to date)
by Frank Schnittger - Feb 8
8 comments

Romania: protests change government
by DoDo - Feb 8
6 comments

Answers to the Renewable Energy Consultation
by Luis de Sousa - Feb 7

Bristol Pound
by ChrisCook - Feb 7
14 comments

The Imitation Of Germany
by afew - Feb 4
31 comments

Strange Fruit
by Frank Schnittger - Feb 4
14 comments

Murdoch - Outsourcing and Hubris
by ceebs - Feb 3
18 comments

Mismatch with the Natural Gas Market
by Luis de Sousa - Feb 3
22 comments

The Future of Economics
by ARGeezer - Feb 2
191 comments

Desert Island Discs - Helen's distortions
by Helen - Jan 31
48 comments

Gorila
by DoDo - Jan 29
14 comments

Rail News Blogging #7
by DoDo - Jan 29
15 comments

Obama's State Of The Union: LQD
by Crazy Horse - Jan 25
74 comments

Democracy Technology
by gmoke - Jan 24
1 comment

The Hydrogen dream
by Luis de Sousa - Jan 24
49 comments

ET Paris Meet-Up 2012 (2 UPDATE)
by afew - Jan 23
113 comments

More Diaries...
Occasional Series