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I always find it remarkable how much the hard left take their "facts" and language from the Tory Eurosceptic right.  

"It's a mystery to me - the game commences, For the usual fee - plus expenses, Confidential information - it's in my diary..."
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot dotty communists) on Fri Jun 13th, 2008 at 09:59:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Not to mention how they vote with them so often. Isn't it weird how the interests of the anti-military crowd line up so neatly with those of the US military-industrial crowd?
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Fri Jun 13th, 2008 at 10:02:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes and no: Both want Europe to not have independent military capabilities.

- Jake

If you only spend 20 minutes of the rest of your life on economics, go spend them here.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Sun Jun 15th, 2008 at 07:08:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Do you mean the hard left in Ireland?

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Fri Jun 13th, 2008 at 10:20:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes - they seem to share a nationalist perspective with the UK Tories

"It's a mystery to me - the game commences, For the usual fee - plus expenses, Confidential information - it's in my diary..."
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot dotty communists) on Fri Jun 13th, 2008 at 10:25:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I always find it remarkable how much the hard left take their "facts" and language from the Tory Eurosceptic right.

Although I am far from being "hard left" (and thus cannot give an answer from that perspective), I have no problems in using Tory (or whatever) words if they seem to be an accurate description of reality.

I would actually invert the argument altogether: do you have any problems in using other people's keywords just because those people are "far away" from you? So casual agreement with the "other side" is a substantial (negative) argument for you?

by t-------------- on Fri Jun 13th, 2008 at 10:24:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I have no problems using any words which describe reality as accurately as I can.  My point was that I believe the hard left in Ireland and the Tory right in the UK have a lot in common - including a shared belief in the primacy of the nation state above all else.

"It's a mystery to me - the game commences, For the usual fee - plus expenses, Confidential information - it's in my diary..."
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot dotty communists) on Fri Jun 13th, 2008 at 10:28:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Personally, I do have a problem with that. Political buzzwords carry connotations built up with lots of propaganda. Especially when coming from the right, they don't describe reality; and even if there is a real problem, they shift focus on something else. "EU bureaucracy" is a perfect example.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Fri Jun 13th, 2008 at 10:36:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]
(For full disclosure: myself, I am a hard-leftist who is strongly pro-EU -as-principle but also strongly critical of the EU as it exists, and I do have some symphathy for fellow hard-leftists on a No-Lisbon platform.)

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Fri Jun 13th, 2008 at 10:39:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]
It's all about the narratives.

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Jun 13th, 2008 at 10:41:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Agree. That would be an interesting discussion altogether.

But, from an intellectual perspective, I would argue that people sometimes refuse an argument just because it is made from the "other side". That doesn't seem healthy.

From a media/narrative perspective I see your point.

by t-------------- on Fri Jun 13th, 2008 at 11:00:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]
There certainly is a strong "pragmatist" "use the arguments that work" tradition in the French trotskyst hard left parties.

Un roi sans divertissement est un homme plein de misères
by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Fri Jun 13th, 2008 at 10:30:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]

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