Just having a bad day | 68 comments (68 topical, editorial, 0 hidden)

Re: Just having a bad day (4.00 / 2)

Nah - you can sleep easy - as I do in my equally rustic idyll. There is nothing evil about Ireland or the 26 other members making their own different choices. We just need to be aware of the possible worst case consequences of doing so.

Nice is not some static status quo idyll. It too can lead to an ongoing development of how the members choose to associate with each other. And that association doesn't have to include Ireland if we don't want it to. However, right now I think Croatia would be a more deserving (and needy) member of the EU. Perhaps now that we have taken the spoils and become rich in the process it is time we made way for someone else to have the same opportunity.

"It's a mystery to me - the game commences, For the usual fee - plus expenses, Confidential information - it's in my diary..."

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Fri Jun 20th, 2008 at 07:21:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Just having a bad day (4.00 / 3)

My elitist self-esteem would not like opting out just when we have become a Contributory State...or perhaps it would.
I am not anti-EU. I just want respect and concern for the citizens of all the EU countries over and above what some politicians might desire. The EU was right on when it devoted itself to an economic and social alliance. When it decided that a standing army would be a nice new toy, it lost me. When it decided not to stand up for its human population, it lost me.
Now I will go back to mumbling about my ideals in my idyll.

Marie

by marie on Fri Jun 20th, 2008 at 07:34:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Just having a bad day (4.00 / 2)

marie:

When it decided that a standing army would be a nice new toy, it lost me.

Please quote from the treaties.

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Jun 20th, 2008 at 07:39:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Just having a bad day (4.00 / 4)

marie:

My elitist self-esteem would not like opting out just when we have become a Contributory State...or perhaps it would.

The problem with Ireland is that it has a nominally high income (GDP) but very unequal distribution (pockets of abject rural poverty you were debating with Colman the other day) on which (redistribution) please address yourself to the Taoiseach.

Also on the fact that the high income has been engineered by lowering corporate tax which benefits yuppies in Dublin but results in Ireland losing access to Structural Funds.

Maybe EU tax harmonization wouldn't be such a bad idea, after all, since it would eliminate the race to the bottom on corporate tax (on which, again, address the Taoiseach) and its ill effects on rural Ireland.

Where is the problem, in Dublin or in Brussels?

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Jun 20th, 2008 at 07:43:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Just having a bad day (none / 1)

"Where is the problem, in Dublin or in Brussels?"

Both places. It has become a never-ending circle jerk. My original statement was that this was a referendum against the current Irish government...as much as the EU.

Marie

by marie on Fri Jun 20th, 2008 at 09:12:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Just having a bad day (none / 0)

So what exactly has Brussels done without the explicit approval of Dublin? In fact Dublin took the lead role in the negotiations which led to the conclusion of the original Constitutional Treaty - on which much of Lisbon is based. I can't see how you can blame Brussels for doing precisely what Dublin asked it too - as it is required to do under all the previous Treaties.

"It's a mystery to me - the game commences, For the usual fee - plus expenses, Confidential information - it's in my diary..."

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Fri Jun 20th, 2008 at 09:40:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Just having a bad day (none / 1)

Why do you confuse the Irish government with the Irish people? Yes, they elected the current government, but do they like what the government has done lately? Not so much. Almost 55% not so much.

Marie

by marie on Fri Jun 20th, 2008 at 09:49:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Just having a bad day (none / 0)

So, is Sinn Fein poised to win the next election, or will that 55% vote for the same government?

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Jun 20th, 2008 at 09:50:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Just having a bad day (none / 1)

This government, with minor variations, has been re-elected three times - almost unprecedented in Irish History. We prefer to rotate Government and opposition as much as possible!

I've no problem with you being anti-government Marie, - what I don't understand is how you can expect the EU to do what Sinn Fein, Coir, Libertas and a few small Socialist parties want it to do - when their positions are all contradictory, and their combined vote in the the general last year was c. 10%

Surely it would be far more undemocratic for the EU to follow their policies?

"It's a mystery to me - the game commences, For the usual fee - plus expenses, Confidential information - it's in my diary..."

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Fri Jun 20th, 2008 at 09:57:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Just having a bad day (none / 0)

Which of the 26 other democratically elected Governments would you like to see deposed, and why? And why have Irish No voters got the right to tell other countries that their democratically elected governments are not democratic enough for us to want work in partnership with them on the lines that they have all agreed?

I can understand you being unhappy about the Irish Government's performance. But which of its current functions would you want to see taken over by the EU? Environmental planning? Gay rights? Reproductive rights? Do you think the rest of the No voters would also be happy to cede control of these areas?

"It's a mystery to me - the game commences, For the usual fee - plus expenses, Confidential information - it's in my diary..."

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Fri Jun 20th, 2008 at 07:50:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Just having a bad day (none / 0)

Moreover, do you think some of the more eurosceptic countries or even France (which is not actually federalist) would agree to expanding Union competences in those areas?

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Jun 20th, 2008 at 07:54:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Just having a bad day (none / 1)

Frank Schnittger:

We just need to be aware of the possible worst case consequences

Ah, so this is a [Schnittger's Crystal Ball of Doom™ Technology] diary!

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Jun 20th, 2008 at 08:22:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Just having a bad day (4.00 / 2)

I made the mistake of contributing to Timesonline's blog on this topic Charles Bremner - Times Online - WBLG: Pity about the Irish No to Europe

Maggie has asked me to come back to add my tuppence worth to this discussion on this forum. I have been hosting a series of blogs on the Lisbon Treaty at http://www.eurotrib.com/user/Frank%20Schnittger/diary and the last one is currently running at 328 comments, so you can see how much interest has been generated by this debate.

More as a plug for ET than anything else. But I get seriously depressed having to confront all the neocons and eurosceptics who populate that place all the time.

Hence my somewhat apocalypical polemic here. It's time we stopped indulging the petty anti EU propagandists who want all the benefits, and yet do nothing but try to tear it down - particularly Brit expats sponging on French health services complaining about hard working immigrants in England changing their culture.

The beleaguered europhiles there want me to stay but I don't have time to do both. They won't come here because they see it as a "closed" community. We have got to work on that perception and market ourselves better... but then I get in trouble over here.

Time to take a break, methinks.

"It's a mystery to me - the game commences, For the usual fee - plus expenses, Confidential information - it's in my diary..."

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Fri Jun 20th, 2008 at 08:39:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Just having a bad day (none / 1)

That's actually a very good column by Bremner.

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Jun 20th, 2008 at 08:54:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Just having a bad day (none / 0)

yea - but some of the comments are awful - he is running very close to the edge of his papers editorial policy...

"It's a mystery to me - the game commences, For the usual fee - plus expenses, Confidential information - it's in my diary..."

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Fri Jun 20th, 2008 at 09:26:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Just having a bad day (4.00 / 2)

Now, now. Being aware of worst case possibilities is not predicting them. Perhaps instead an ET METAL OF MERITORIOUS SERVICE AWARD instead.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Fri Jun 20th, 2008 at 01:35:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Just having a bad day (none / 1)

I don't believe Ireland will be left high and dry - or submerged as Atlantis was - but I do think we have got to rid people of the delusion that you can continually kick our 26 Partners in Europe in the groin and not do damage to the relationships we have painstakingly built up there. Ireland has done extremely well out of the EU - probably better than we actually deserved - but now that goodwill is being squandered. And the people whinging at the EU now will be the first to whinge when the Merkel's and Sarkozy's of this world really do start playing hardball. And then we won't get a lot of sympathy from the rest of Europe either.

"It's a mystery to me - the game commences, For the usual fee - plus expenses, Confidential information - it's in my diary..."

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Fri Jun 20th, 2008 at 07:19:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Just having a bad day (none / 0)

Small Nations in Europe should always keep in mind that it is the EU which gives them much more power over the large Nations, then they would have in the case of hardball realpolitik.

by rz on Sat Jun 21st, 2008 at 10:30:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Just having a bad day (none / 0)

The Ellemann-Jensen doctrine?

Nw, what do you make of Atlanticist small EU nations who think their big buddy is Uncle Sam?

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sat Jun 21st, 2008 at 10:31:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Just having a bad day (none / 0)

Depending on the alternatives sticking to the US can be very beneficial. One example for that is Georgia.

However if you are part of the EU you have a very good alternative, obviously the EU. Then being to close to the US might cost you more then you profit from it.

by rz on Sat Jun 21st, 2008 at 12:11:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Just having a bad day (none / 0)

Unless your goal in foreign policy is to stick it up to Russia.

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sat Jun 21st, 2008 at 01:06:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Just having a bad day (none / 0)

Did you know Croatians were putting the EU flag on their car licence plates in at 2000? I'm not sure whether that was legal or state-sanctioned, or people just did it themselves.

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Jun 20th, 2008 at 08:39:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Just having a bad day | 68 comments (68 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

Top Diaries

A short note on extreme flooding (wonkish)

Catholic Bishops fighting losing battle in Ireland

A shift of sexual mores

Tour of the German offshore wind sector

Record flood on the Danube

Utopian Ideas - Digital Infrastructure

Histories of Neoliberalism?

Woolwich killing: responses

Recent Diaries

Catholic Bishops fighting losing battle in Ireland

A short note on extreme flooding (wonkish)

A shift of sexual mores

Tuesday Open Thread

Utopian Ideas - Digital Infrastructure

Tour of the German offshore wind sector

Record flood on the Danube

Histories of Neoliberalism?

No Desertec for Europe

The metro revolution

Woolwich killing: responses

Methane Cell Phone Sniffers

What price, Irish recovery?

How the "riots" in Stockholm started

One lone paper?

Fiscal and Organizational Capacity of States and Sovereignty

Austrians finally discover hyperinflation - in Diablo III

Rail News Blogging #25

Pentecost steam

Standing on the Shoulders of Giants - Europe and the Mongol...

Occasional Series