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In MfM's example about Germany the contraction of GDP would lead to a precipitous drop in capitalised asset values, and a "depression". There would be class war.

Consider also, that reduced population growth will make labor more expensive.  Thus, you have rising wages, and increased traction for labor against capital.  

The same thing is going to happen very soon in China as the labor force starts to contract due to the onset of the one child policy's effect on population levels.  You already see low end production shifting to Vietnam due to the increase in Chinese wages.

Consider also the demand side of population decline.  China's rapid ascent has been based on increasing demand in the United States, Japan, and Europe.  To where will other states wishing to industrialize ship their goods when demand declines in these regions?

And I'll give my consent to any government that does not deny a man a living wage-Billy Bragg

by ManfromMiddletown (manfrommiddletown at lycos dot com) on Sun Jun 29th, 2008 at 06:26:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Consider also, that reduced population growth will make labor more expensive.  Thus, you have rising wages, and increased traction for labor against capital.

But with today's capital mobility investors could take their money to greener pastures if the assumed population decline is a localised phenomenon as opposed to a global one. You could have an Argentinean situation where workers need to take over productive industrial plants abandoned by their owners.

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Jun 29th, 2008 at 06:30:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The problem is that the decline is likely to be global.

First, because everyplace but Africa is at the point where birth rates decline.  And Africa faces the scourge of AIDS that often takes people at the height of their working years.

The issue is that if pay in a producing country isn't enough to buy a product, then you have to find someone else to buy it.  Who?

If demand in advanced countries declines with the population, then who buys the stuff.

FYI, I've got a copy of Veblen on my desk in front of me waiting to be read when I go eat.  I just finished Freakonomics.  I was not impressed.

And I'll give my consent to any government that does not deny a man a living wage-Billy Bragg

by ManfromMiddletown (manfrommiddletown at lycos dot com) on Sun Jun 29th, 2008 at 06:37:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]
ManfromMiddletown:
If demand in advanced countries declines with the population, then who buys the stuff.
If the premise of our economic system is that we must have ever increasing production and consumption we are in trouble anyway. Finite world and all that. Further, I would argue that Global Warming and other environmental calamities are if nothing an indication of over production. The greenest product is the one you don't buy. The proper challenge is to figure out how to have society work less and consume less, not to prop up consumption in face of a falling population.
by someone (s0me1smail(a)gmail(d)com) on Mon Jun 30th, 2008 at 02:10:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Consider also, that reduced population growth will make labor more expensive.

Temporarily (if at all). Reduced population growth also decreases the future consumer base and thus future consumer demand for products, thus reducing future employee demand for labour. The same feedback works when there is population growth, and it works both for natural population growth and immigration.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Mon Jun 30th, 2008 at 05:49:56 AM EST
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