Display:
Europe is much closer to Iraq than the US, thus we got a big problem if the US leaves too soon or causes more trouble by escalating tensions with Iran or arming the crazy Sunni groups or the Saudis etc. (Well, Europe is arming the Saudis as well.)

I think, Europe should come up with a strategy for the region and propose it to the next US president. We should be proactive rather than reactive.

Also: see this comment by Nanne and the others on A fistful of euros in Feb 2007.

by Joerg in Berlin ((joerg.wolf [AT] atlanticreview.org)) on Thu Jun 5th, 2008 at 09:39:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The faster the US gets the hell out of Iraq, the better for all of us.

We should be ready to help them rebuild their country as soon as the US gets out of Iraq.

Really, I have to wonder how you can possibly believe that getting proactive with the Americans on Iraq is in our interests? In the American's interests, certainly. In ours? Whatever for?

Really, what is the upside? And what is the downside if we let the Americans come to the logical conclusion they eventually will come to and get the hell out? Seriously, what are the credible threats, risks and other assessments?

Nil aon leigheas ar an ngra ach posadh

by redstar on Thu Jun 5th, 2008 at 12:45:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]
To get some stuff over from AFOE (back in 2007), this is what Doug Merrill asked:

Five Easy Questions | afoe | A Fistful of Euros | European Opinion

Should Europe as a whole have a common policy for dealing with Iraq?
If so, what should it be?
Who will implement it?
Who will pay for it?
What needs to be done now to get a policy in place by the time the US Army starts winding things down?


And this is what I wrote:

  1. Yes
  2. Containment
  3. Everyone
  4. Everyone
  5. Closer ties need to be forged with regional powers (Syria, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Turkey).

The first step should be an ambitious but carefully phased in programme to support particularly Jordan and Syria with the massive amount of refugees from Iraq they have to harbour. We first need go get more diplomatic credit in the region. Working to stall any potential plans the US may have to launch an attack on Iran should also further that aim (and prevent the situation from becoming completely hopeless).

Alex Harrowell wrote something similar, and his #5 really should be the first step.

We shouldn't prop up a failing US policy. But we would do better to have a policy.

by nanne (zwaerdenmaecker@gmail.com) on Thu Jun 5th, 2008 at 02:39:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]
This is all very reasonable, and I'd agree with all the prescriptions you underline, except with number 2 - containment should be the policy for the US, for Iraq it should be development, once the Americans are finally gone.

But it seems to me that we can't do anything until the Americans are finally gone, which there are no guarantees of. The only planning we should be doing is what to do once the Americans finally leave, in the event they do; thus, contingency planning.

Problem is these position papers use terms like "aligning with US interests". Well, first of all, my instinct is that that's not a good idea. And the main reason is that we are in no way certain the Americans will leave willingly. Hopefully they will but we don't know. In light of that, our diplomatic posture should not be facilitating to them at all, as it is not in our interests to participate in this fiasco, and in fact the moral thing (as well as strategically the best thing for us) is to make sure no pressure is relieved on the US for them to finally leave. I read Kouchner's statements, which are lauded here, and I'm ashamed of my government and it's rank stupidity. I don't think this is the right thing to pursue.

Nil aon leigheas ar an ngra ach posadh

by redstar on Thu Jun 5th, 2008 at 04:56:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Iraq is in a slow-burning civil war. That civil war will not end as long as the Americans are there, and will probably take some time to settle afterwards. There is still some risk that it will spread to other countries in the region. Syria and Jordan seem the most vulnerable.

As we see in Afghanistan, Lebanon, Somalia, etcetera, development is not something you can do effectively in wartime.

To avoid confusion, the policy I suggest is not containment of a regime, but of a civil war. Stop it from spreading and foster stability from the outside. This is a policy we should implement right now. The continuing American presence in Iraq is all the more reason.

When Iraq is stable and regains sovereignty over its natural resources, it will be able to finance its own development with mainly technical assistance from the EU.

by nanne (zwaerdenmaecker@gmail.com) on Thu Jun 5th, 2008 at 05:51:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I've been thinking along these lines and I have it almost condensed into a diary...

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sat Jun 7th, 2008 at 05:58:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Good point, but such contingency planning is not happening, is it?

It's too late to start only after the US leave.

by Joerg in Berlin ((joerg.wolf [AT] atlanticreview.org)) on Fri Jun 6th, 2008 at 03:48:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]
One problem of proavtivity is, when you don't know what works and you still make suggestions, somebody may put you in charge if things don't play out as assumed previously.
There are things, such as
  • taking refugees
  • offer help in safe places
  • stabilise neighbour countries, which may suffer from refugees
  • be open for suggestions
which come without the same responsibility taking, that proactivity has

Der Amerikaner ist die Orchidee unter den Menschen
Volker Pispers
by Martin (weiser.mensch(at)googlemail.com) on Thu Jun 5th, 2008 at 04:25:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]
If Europe gets involved, shouldn't they first of all work with the Iraqi people, to help rebuild their country. I do not see an advantage of working with the US, it is not their country, they do not belong their.
by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Jun 5th, 2008 at 04:36:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]
If Europe gets involved, shouldn't they first of all work with the Iraqi people, to help rebuild their country.

The Iraqi people but which one? Which faction? Secular INL-style or Sunni islamists or tribal leaders, the Kurds, the Sadrist Shia nationalists or Iran-aligned SCIRI, the ones inside, the refugees?

"All of them" is alas not an answer. Before Iraq stabilizes if it ever does, it's going to require a few winners and an awful lot of losers.

by Francois in Paris on Thu Jun 5th, 2008 at 10:53:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]
You didn't answer the question I asked.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Thu Jun 5th, 2008 at 04:41:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]
<crickets>

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes
by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Fri Jun 6th, 2008 at 06:00:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm shocked.

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sat Jun 7th, 2008 at 05:58:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]
  1. easy: to Washington
  2. hmmm, tougher. How about: Europeans show enthusiasm for Washington's policies. That would be "revitalising."


In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes
by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Fri Jun 6th, 2008 at 06:02:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Display:
Login
. Make a new account
. Reset password
Recommended Diaries
Clipping the wings of a judge
by Migeru - Feb 10
18 comments

Hunger March wins PR battle
by DoDo - Feb 9
2 comments

Romania: protests change government
by DoDo - Feb 8
6 comments

Murdoch - Outsourcing and Hubris
by ceebs - Feb 3
18 comments

Obama wins GOP Primaries (to date)
by Frank Schnittger - Feb 8
8 comments

Bristol Pound
by ChrisCook - Feb 7
14 comments

Strange Fruit
by Frank Schnittger - Feb 4
14 comments

The Imitation Of Germany
by afew - Feb 4
31 comments

Recent Diaries
Sarkozy: Enemies Ahoy!
by afew - Feb 10
3 comments

Clipping the wings of a judge
by Migeru - Feb 10
18 comments

LQD: Unsustainable irrigation
by Melanchthon - Feb 9

Hunger March wins PR battle
by DoDo - Feb 9
2 comments

Obama wins GOP Primaries (to date)
by Frank Schnittger - Feb 8
8 comments

Romania: protests change government
by DoDo - Feb 8
6 comments

Answers to the Renewable Energy Consultation
by Luis de Sousa - Feb 7

Bristol Pound
by ChrisCook - Feb 7
14 comments

The Imitation Of Germany
by afew - Feb 4
31 comments

Strange Fruit
by Frank Schnittger - Feb 4
14 comments

Murdoch - Outsourcing and Hubris
by ceebs - Feb 3
18 comments

Mismatch with the Natural Gas Market
by Luis de Sousa - Feb 3
22 comments

The Future of Economics
by ARGeezer - Feb 2
191 comments

Desert Island Discs - Helen's distortions
by Helen - Jan 31
48 comments

Gorila
by DoDo - Jan 29
14 comments

Rail News Blogging #7
by DoDo - Jan 29
15 comments

Obama's State Of The Union: LQD
by Crazy Horse - Jan 25
74 comments

Democracy Technology
by gmoke - Jan 24
1 comment

The Hydrogen dream
by Luis de Sousa - Jan 24
49 comments

ET Paris Meet-Up 2012 (2 UPDATE)
by afew - Jan 23
113 comments

More Diaries...
Occasional Series