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European Tribune - What can be expected of Europe in Iraq?
It seems to me there is a relatively high likelihood that within 5 years Iraq, Iran and Afghanistan will all be in flames (and Pakistan, too) which is definitely the outcome the EU should be trying to avert.

At which point Obama's 'undivided Jerusalem' rhetoric starts to look like a very bad thing.

While everyone is in raptures over Obama's non-Bush-ness and the fact that his teeth aren't yellow, Obama's foreign policy may be a disaster waiting to happen.

No one likes posters who who say this over at the Big Orange Satan.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Sat Jun 7th, 2008 at 09:35:15 AM EST
Sure. Unfortunately, so are the policies of all the other possibilities.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Sat Jun 7th, 2008 at 01:52:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Obama's 'undivided Jerusalem' rhetoric

was appalling. It is such a grotesque ritual for US politicians to grovel before AIPAC.  And it totally stymies any chance for a resolution of the Palestinian question.  Another reason to pray that with Jim Webb's help, the Dems can peel away enough Scots-Irish to enable them to win without major support from the Jewish community.  Then we could perhaps have a rational foreign policy--at least under Democratic administrations.  But I dream.

But actually, this would be in the interest of Israel and all of their American sympathizers.  It could be the only way that we don't end up with a Monument to the "World's Three Great Monotheisms" in the area now occupied by Al Asqa Mosque and the remains of the Second Temple.  That monument being a mile wide, five hundred food deep glass lined crater where those two religious artifacts now stand.  

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Mon Jun 9th, 2008 at 12:56:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]
His rhetoric was indeed surprising.  As a neo-con, I would probably be, well, crucified if I brought that up here, so I'm glad you did.

However, I wouldn't take it too seriously.  From my perspective as a long-time consumer of US politics, it is clearly triangulation.  Obama's politics of hope may end up meaning "say everything and anything and hope for the best".

I have two, mutually exclusive theories about what Obama meant:

1) It wasn't just triangulation, it was clumsy triangulation, revealing his lack of experience and delicacy on this matter.  Obama could have easily met expectations at his AIPAC address by repeating boilerplate Democratic talking points that stop well short of what he said.  The Jewish vote in the US is influence by AIPAC, but not controlled by it; Obama's demographics favor white collars and academic robes, which is generally speaking the Jewish demographic as well.  So he already has most of their vote without pandering to AIPAC, and it isn't like he is so desperate for money that he needs AIPAC fundraising.  And AIPAC knows a pander when they see it.

Obama is a quick study, and will probably clean up his rhetoric in time for the general election.  But he will pay a certain price for absurdly and unnecessarily trying to get to the right of McCain on this.

And, it could mean that his foreign policy in office will be equally ad hoc, which could be, as you say, a disaster waiting to happen.

OR...

2) It was clever triangulation.  The purpose was to make headlines, and to insulate him from his past association with Palestinian radicals (in my opinion) like Rashid Khalidi (about whom AIPAC audience members quizzed him).  An intriguing possibility is that the undivided Jerusalem rhetoric was designed to get Hamas to withdraw its "endorsement".  Which they did, conveniently just a few days after the remark, but with remarkably mild rhetoric (for Hamas, that is).  Obama, having got what he wanted, will probably "clarify" that he meant an undivided "open" city, not an undivided Israeli city, or perhaps pretend he never said it and reiterate US policy boilerplate.  Or something like that.

This could mean that his foreign policy will be downright Machiavellian!

So, I don't know if 1) or 2) is correct, but either way, I can guarantee you he didn't mean it as a serious statement of policy.

__
I am the most conservative Unitarian-Universalist you will ever meet.

by John in Michigan USA on Wed Jun 18th, 2008 at 03:47:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]
If I had to choose I'd go for 2) because Obama's campaign has proved too media savvy for a blunder like 1). After all, the timing was chosen carefully to be the first major policy speech after the end of the primary voting season.

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Jun 18th, 2008 at 05:18:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]
If you recall, a while ago his allegedly media savvy campaign leaked that they had privately reassured the Canadians that he didn't mean all that scary stuff about ending NAFTA.

But that leak blew up in his face, big time.  Progressives alienated, Canada embarrassed, advisors resigned or sidelined, etc.

If on the other hand we assume his team was being clever in the NAFTA incident, what does it mean that he reassured Canada, but not Mexico?  Under this theory, he is sending the message that his anti-NAFTA rhetoric was directed mainly against Mexico, which sounds uncomfortably like a racist pander to steal Anglo blue-collar votes away from Clinton.  And, there's plenty of anti-Hispanic animus in the African-American community, although it is taboo to talk about it.

So, you may be right, but I am still torn between 1) and 2).

__
I am the most conservative Unitarian-Universalist you will ever meet.

by John in Michigan USA on Wed Jun 18th, 2008 at 09:50:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]
No, I had missed that incident.

Maybe he's just the least incompetent of a field of 16 incompetent presidential candidates.

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Jun 18th, 2008 at 10:16:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]

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