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The "How dare you gloat at us" ones? The "We'll kill you all and take your oil" ones? The "We have to have cheap oil" ones?
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Wed Jul 2nd, 2008 at 06:44:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Hmm, I must have missed those.

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Jul 2nd, 2008 at 07:00:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, that's just one unhinged guy.

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Jul 2nd, 2008 at 07:09:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]
One completely nuts, but there are others who are strange.
The hysterics about people freezing to death this winter if we don't immediately get very low oil prices are not particularly impressive, especially in a continent that seems to reckon that 28°C in winter and 15°C in summer are compulsory temperatures inside.

Or the constant "comparisons are not relevant at all because the US are so much bigger, do you realise how long it takes to drive from coast to coast?"
Why would you want to?

A lot of those people seem to me to react like addicts in need of a quick fix. Some ask Jérôme to write about solutions, but dismiss them all when he does. What they call "solutions" mean "ways to get as much oil as we want, cheaply, and right now and forever". I'm unimpressed to say the least.

"Few can believe that suffering, especially by others, is in vain. - Galbraith"

by Cyrille (cyrillev domain yahoo.fr) on Wed Jul 2nd, 2008 at 07:16:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Why would you want to?

You're French, so you can't appreciate the concept of "tourist traps".  You have no idea how much crap we can put together in every little town between New York and Los Angeles. ;)

Conservatives want live babies so they can raise them to be dead soldiers. - George Carlin

by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Wed Jul 2nd, 2008 at 07:19:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Right, so let's create a TouristCrapRail train company, guaranteed to stop in every little town along the way, with time to shop.

"Few can believe that suffering, especially by others, is in vain. - Galbraith"
by Cyrille (cyrillev domain yahoo.fr) on Wed Jul 2nd, 2008 at 07:21:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]
That would require people paying more taxes, and taxes are the handywork of Da Devil here, as you know being in France where there's a functioning news industry.  At best, you can get away with what Obama's will probably wind up doing if he's elected (basically a slightly steeper rise than what Bill Clinton pushed through): Raising taxes on capital gains and the higher income brackets, and lifting the FICA cap, while leaving working- and middle-class brackets alone.  (Right now he says he's going to cut the lower and middle brackets, but I doubt that's going to be affordable when we reach that junction, so it probably won't pass Congress.)

Conservatives want live babies so they can raise them to be dead soldiers. - George Carlin
by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Wed Jul 2nd, 2008 at 07:42:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Then there's

Crap Towns

which I guess has yet to take off in the US......

"Any economic unit can emit money. The serious problem is to get it accepted" Hyman Minsky

by ChrisCook (cojockathotmaildotcom) on Wed Jul 2nd, 2008 at 07:49:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, people will freeze to death because if they can't afford to individually buy the heating oil they need, there isn't a government program to help them. And proposing that people be provided a minimum ration of heating oil [which is possible since the problem is not yet that there is no oil, but that it's expensive] would be <gasp> socialism.

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Jul 2nd, 2008 at 07:25:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]
It is true that people will freeze to death, just like it is true that people will die in car accidents, gun accidents, heat waves, and of loneliness.

What will be interesting is how local governments and social agencies will respond. In New England's poorly insulated houses (many built in the 1920s) with oil furnaces, it is not unusual to go through 200 gallons of oil per month in the winter, which at $5 a gallon is quite a bit of money for those in the social class that typically lives in row houses.

But there are also some pretty tightly knit communities, many the remnants of previous generations of immigrants (e.g., Swedish, Polish, Italian, etc.) and recent immigrants (many from South America). It is not difficult to envision a support system within these communities that could help the most needy. For example, in floods and in the Blitz, people gathered and slept in school gymnasiums. If heating fuel becomes a crisis of that proportion, people will gather and sleep in the gym.

Certainly some people will die in the transition, particularly if they are not connected to their neighbors, but the question is about the scale of the problem.

by asdf on Wed Jul 2nd, 2008 at 08:29:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I've been thinking about this particular concern for a while. A lot of people in the US live in old, poorly maintained buildings. Some could not afford to heat their houses last winter. With heating oil approaching $5.00/gallon, this year could be much worse.

Here is my simplistic approach:

  1. Better home insulation is the first line of defense. Also sealing leaky doors and windows. But this requires investment and some (gasp!) planning. If you can't afford to insulate the whole house, at least do one or two rooms, so people can huddle together there on really cold days. Ideally choose room(s) without an outside wall. Then even if the heat is off, body heat from several people will accumulate and warm up a room.

  2. Thermal underwear. Seriously. With the proper underclothes it is possible to feel too warm even in really cold weather. Pay particular attention to the lower extremities, including wearing thermal socks, also from the underwear supplier. If necessary, put on light gloves and a hat, even when indoors.

  3. No one can possibly freeze while zipped into a half-decent outdoor sleeping bag.

  4. Drink thick soup and keep some high-calorie food around for a quick warmup when necessary.

  5. Don't sit in one place for a long time. Get up and do something instead of just browsing the European Tribune or Daily Kos! (But on this one I will almost certainly not follow my own advice.)
by Ralph on Wed Jul 2nd, 2008 at 01:02:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Isn't that overdramatic?
If it's about life and death, one usually is ready to make some sacrifices. Is heating only a few rooms and to a reasonable temperature, with electricity if need be (a thermopump would be best) really too unamerican?

That wouldn't take any rationing (possibly state help, but is that communist too?). I visited old houses in Sweden (I mean 18th century), and clearly the house was smaller in the winter. Is that not better than death, though?

Moreover, if we don't quickly learn to make do with less burning of oil, there WILL be a lot of deaths. Trying to sustain for a few extra years the most unsustainable of lifestyles is not really helping.

Anyway, I want a government program of course (I am French after all). But short of that, "bring cheap oil or we'll freeze to death" while dismissing any of the lifestyle changes strikes me as the wrong reaction.

"Few can believe that suffering, especially by others, is in vain. - Galbraith"

by Cyrille (cyrillev domain yahoo.fr) on Wed Jul 2nd, 2008 at 08:36:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]
And really, freezing to death? As in literally actually, freezing to death, not just hyperbole for "damn it's cold in here"? It is quite possible to survive in a wind-tight tent with a good sleeping bad in sub-zero temperature. I assume the people have access to good quality plastic sheeting and duct tape (as recommended by their government's anti-terror agency or some such...)to tighten up those cracks in their crappy houses a bit. With a few extra blankets I simply do not see how people would freeze to death in even an unheated room. If need be, install a tent in the room to create a smaller enclosed space to heat with body heat. But freezing to death? No way!
by someone (s0me1smail(a)gmail(d)com) on Wed Jul 2nd, 2008 at 08:46:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I think it would be mostly elderly people 'freezing to death', like they also die when there is a heat wave. Pensioners on tight income without an extensive social network and not very active or able to adapt their house to the cold in the ways you suggest.

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Jul 2nd, 2008 at 08:56:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]
... and rather than funding a local social service infrastructure who knows where those people are living and can check out whether they are doing OK, the US needs to invade some country somewhere that has lots of oil and take it.

Mind you, the last time it was tried it cost a lot more oil than it has generated, but you never know ... look around and there might be a better, safer bet. Nigeria, maybe. 8-)# {ducks, runs for cover}

I've been accused of being a Marxist, yet while Harpo's my favourite, it's Groucho I'm always quoting. Odd, that.

by BruceMcF (agila61 at netscape dot net) on Wed Jul 2nd, 2008 at 12:09:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I assume the people have access to good quality plastic sheeting and duct tape (as recommended by their government's anti-terror agency or some such...)to tighten up those cracks in their crappy houses a bit.

You know, when Homeland Security was trying to decide on a symbol, my father suggested an eagle soaring up with a strip of duct tape stretched between its talons.  My aunt, always the super-serious bureaucrat, did not see the humor.

Anyway, I suspect you're right.  It'd be uncomfortable, but talk of people freezing to death on a large scale is difficult to imagine.

Conservatives want live babies so they can raise them to be dead soldiers. - George Carlin

by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Wed Jul 2nd, 2008 at 08:59:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Americans are really good at verbalizing their inner hyperbole. Europeans on the whole are more apt to keep it to themselves. There will be endless incessant whining as this continues, but Americans will adjust on their own as best as they can - while continuing to whine, and asking for government subsidies.

Few are willing to sacrifice by joining the army to participate in an oil grab - but there is a risk that down the road a poor and demoralized America will elect a false prophet that promises a return to the good old days. All countries will face this risk, America slightly more so.

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Wed Jul 2nd, 2008 at 03:10:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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