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Ok, we need to get the story straight. If renewable energy sources can provide electricity at a cost that is only slightly higher than what we pay now for cheap fossil supplied oil, and if most people have commutes that are within the range of electric car technology, then what sort of retrofitting is needed?

Because peak oil is not the only reason suburbs need to be retrofitted, just the more urgent one ?

Auferre, trucidare, rapere, falsis nominibus imperium; atque, ubi solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant.

by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Wed Jul 2nd, 2008 at 09:04:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]
What other reasons? People like to live on 1/4 acre of land that they "own." They can mow their grass, heat and cool their house, and get to work using electricity, so what forces a change to a more compact city?
by asdf on Wed Jul 2nd, 2008 at 09:15:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Is more dense living even possible in much of the US ? If commercial developments can't be close to habitations and public transit is non-existent, of course suburbia is going to be the more attractive option - if you need to drive anyway, at least get the garden. But with semi urban and urban environment more accessible, maybe people would choose them.

Among other factors, there's one mentioned in the Yglesias posts : elderly population is booming, and driving might not be best for all of them - giving them an option beyond the retirement home could be an idea.

There's the workability of large scale cities : the cars may be electric or gas, but Los Angeles can't grow much more anyway. You can't build enough roads to satisfy an ever increasing traffic.

Also, the land use of suburbia is non-negligible, and one day may need to be used to actually feed people...

Auferre, trucidare, rapere, falsis nominibus imperium; atque, ubi solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant.

by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Wed Jul 2nd, 2008 at 09:46:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Its possible if its allowed ... that is the argument above.

And, further, its possible to structure the settlement system so that the same density does not involve as many miles of individual transport.

Of course, the above argument only looks at one dimension of the transition ... it does not involve the ongoing transition we are going to see to a larger share of the population living in more densely populated urban cores, nor what should be done in terms of newly established developments (though with pervasive opportunities for effective infill redevelopment, the pressure for newly established developments is reduced) ... but you increase the average density by increasing the density of existing settlement wherever it lies on the distribution.


Utsukushikereba sore de ii

by BruceMcF (agila61 at netscape dot net) on Wed Jul 2nd, 2008 at 10:41:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I live in a US city. There's plenty of good housing available here. Also lots of public transport. I do think that, yes, cities can become much more dense. Most any American city I've lived in can use more density. Here in Buffalo they are destroying 12,000 homes this year, and they have another 50,000 to destroy over the next several years.

I don't think there's a public transport problem here.

by Upstate NY on Thu Jul 3rd, 2008 at 08:38:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]
This is framing it as if the choice is between 1/4 acre of land that is owned, and not, with no other change.

But establishing a regulatory system that mandates that everyone in a suburb lives on 1/4 acre of land that owned, also established consequences in terms of higher drive time (and progressively growing, because sprawl development is a dynamic system that grows traffic) and lower disposable income.

So if some people prefer shorter drive times and higher disposable income, and there is a trade-off between 100% suburban sprawl development and 80% suburban sprawl development where the latter offers the option of shorter drive times and higher disposable income ... why not offer people the choice?


Utsukushikereba sore de ii

by BruceMcF (agila61 at netscape dot net) on Wed Jul 2nd, 2008 at 11:04:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]

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