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Migeru:
The European Council, supposedly in charge of giving political direction and impetus to the EU, is bankrupt in political capital.

There is no sense in Ireland that the Presidency of the Council confers some kind of democratic legitimacy on Sarkozy to comment on Irish affairs as anything other than a visiting head of Govt./State.  At best the 6 Month Presidency provides a good excuse for a visit to foreign capitals.  I think this latent nationalism is also behind the opposition to us losing "our" Commissioner, even though the Office is independent of Ireland.

I know I have railed against the conflation of Democracy with direct democracy by plebiscite and see it as ironic that that agenda is pushed by Neo-cons when there is no provision for plebiscites on specific issues in the USA.   However I think that there may also another factor at work here:  In the era of internet access and instant media coverage/comment, people are less and less happy with "politicians" acting as middlemen on their behalf by making such decisions through parliamentary vote.  People want more and more of a direct say - even when they complain that texts like the Lisbon Treaty are far to complex for them.

Sooner or later the EU is going to have to grasp the nettle and implement more direct democracy within the EU - perhaps though a directly elected Presidency, or through the Commission being appointed by Parliament.  Either way the Council will lose some of its power base.  The fact that all its members are elected heads of their national Governments  does not seem to confer much democratic legitimacy on their collective actions as far as many people are concerned.

I personally don't like the idea of a directly elected President.  The thought of a US style election fills me with horror, and smaller countries will probably never succeed in electing a President on a direct vote count basis.  But perhaps it may be the only way to increase popular participation and legitimacy in the EU Government process.

"It's a mystery to me - the game commences, For the usual fee - plus expenses, Confidential information - it's in my diary..."

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot dotty communists) on Mon Jul 21st, 2008 at 09:06:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]
There is no sense in Ireland that the Presidency of the Council confers some kind of democratic legitimacy on Sarkozy to comment on Irish affairs as anything other than a visiting head of Govt./State.
Umm, the Lisbon Treaty is not just an Irish internal affair. And the President of the Council gets to tour the 26 other capitals because his job it is to broker political agreements to be trumpeted at the quarterly summit.

Anyway, already in the consolidated treaty of Nice:

Article 4

...

The European Council shall provide the Union with the necessary impetus for its development and shall
define the general political guidelines thereof.

...




A vivid image of what should exist acts as a surrogate for reality. Pursuit of the image then prevents pursuit of the reality -- John K. Galbraith
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Jul 21st, 2008 at 09:18:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm responding to your point about the Council's lack of political capital.  Its a political/cultural problem, not a technical legal problem.  Irish people have no role in electing Sarkozy - therefore they will not take their instructions from him. Period.  You/I can lecture as  much as we like about powersharing, previous Treaty obligations yadda yadda yadda.  Sarkozy doesn't speak for the Irish - and by presuming to do so he is swelling the NO camp with every word.

"It's a mystery to me - the game commences, For the usual fee - plus expenses, Confidential information - it's in my diary..."
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot dotty communists) on Mon Jul 21st, 2008 at 09:44:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I personally don't like the idea of a directly elected President.  The thought of a US style election fills me with horror, and smaller countries will probably never succeed in electing a President on a direct vote count basis.  But perhaps it may be the only way to increase popular participation and legitimacy in the EU Government process.

horrible thought, i agree. that's what spurred the anti-blair petition for me, he was tailor made for that kind of truman show.

the us election is a triumph of empty bombast, prolonged almost to tantric proportions...

odin forbid we take that road too, national elections are traumatic enough. how do they have time to do anything useful when they're campaigning to the lcd?

having said that, i find barrack a whole new ball game, and i'd love to see a leader that elegantly astute rise up here in yurp too. only someone of that calibre might convince me.

signed, a bit jealous.

~"When an inner situation is not made conscious, it appears outside as fate." Karl Jung~

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Mon Jul 21st, 2008 at 01:58:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I personally don't like the idea of a directly elected President.  The thought of a US style election fills me with horror,

Correction: We do not have direct elections for President.  We have the Electoral College.  If we did have direct elections, Gore, having won the popular vote, would have been elected!   Which is why I'm all in favor of direct elections!  

Russia has direct elections for President.  I think it's rather enlightened of them.  

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.

by poemless on Mon Jul 21st, 2008 at 02:17:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Thanks for the correction - although I think anyone who follows the US elections will be well aware of the distinction - which makes the Murdock/Neo-con conflation of democracy with direct democracy that bit more absurd still.

In practice "direct" election for an EU President would also have to be via an electoral college - perhaps based on EU Parliamentary representation - so as to give smaller countries some incentive to agree to the proposal.  All of which raises the question of why not have the EU Parliament "elect" the President and be done with it - most EU heads of Government are indirectly elected to their office by their Parliament.

Part of me feels the problem of the "democratic deficit" in the EU is almost impossible to resolve - especially as the EU expands.  The fact is that a polity of 500M people can never be as close to the voters as a polity of 4M.  People just have to get used to the fact that we now live in a globalising world and many decisions must of necessity be made at a much more global level.

"It's a mystery to me - the game commences, For the usual fee - plus expenses, Confidential information - it's in my diary..."

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot dotty communists) on Mon Jul 21st, 2008 at 02:30:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Oh, such defeatist Euro-thinking!  Lol.  Sorry.  Seriously, why can't you have Europe-wide direct elections?  I bet that'd solve all your Constitution problems.  A Europe-wide, direct, popular vote.  Do it.  Also, it's soooo European of people to see everything in terms of pandemonium or civility.  Behaving civilized isn't an indicator of fairness.  So bring on the horror/fairness that is a direct election.  Lose the obsession with everyone behaving appropriately and embrace the madness which all politics are under their facade. :)

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.
by poemless on Mon Jul 21st, 2008 at 02:45:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]
There are direct elections to the European Parliament next June!  At present there are over forty parties in 8 Groups so you are spoiled or choice even if you can only vote for those candidates/parliaments standing in your constituency.

As for civility, it's not an issue.  There's plenty of controversy.  What we don't have is 100 of Millions of Euros of private money being used to fund campaigns and lobby groups which are so influential because of their access to money/media.

Also the registration, voting and vote counting processes tend not to be controlled by partisan/commercial interests so their is more confidence in the process.  So if not having an electoral system which is quite as corrupted as the US system is to be defeatist, I'm quite happy to be a regarded as a loser!

"It's a mystery to me - the game commences, For the usual fee - plus expenses, Confidential information - it's in my diary..."

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot dotty communists) on Mon Jul 21st, 2008 at 03:00:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]
What we don't have is 100 of Millions of Euros of private money ...

I mentioned it in a Salon de News Thread, but I thought it might be appropriate to mention it here again:


Irish 'No' vote architect plans Europe-wide 'referendum' on Lisbon Treaty

In an interview with The Sunday Telegraph, Mr Ganley disclosed that he was starting to raise £75 million from online donations to run candidates in all 12 of Britain's European Parliament constituencies, and in seats throughout the EU.

by rz on Tue Jul 22nd, 2008 at 10:41:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Yep - he's importing US methods (and interests) into the EU polity - we need better disclosure laws and contribution limits to stop the subversion of our democracies by corporate and foreign interests

"It's a mystery to me - the game commences, For the usual fee - plus expenses, Confidential information - it's in my diary..."
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot dotty communists) on Tue Jul 22nd, 2008 at 11:04:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]
"subversion" should be "further subversion".
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Tue Jul 22nd, 2008 at 11:08:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Presidential elections - whether direct or semi-direct are by necessity First Past the Post elections. Judging by the US and UK, FPtP elections seem to do Bad Things to your political culture.

- Jake

If you only spend 20 minutes of the rest of your life on economics, go spend them here.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Tue Jul 22nd, 2008 at 10:10:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]

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