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How where they settled?

In Spain an "Enlightened" King issued an edict forbidding discrimination but which basically assumed that Gypsies were Spanish people who had decided to adopt a strange way to dress and speak, which was also forbidden. You can imagine how successful that was...

A vivid image of what should exist acts as a surrogate for reality. Pursuit of the image then prevents pursuit of the reality -- John K. Galbraith

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Jul 24th, 2008 at 02:50:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Let me guess: About as successful as the campaign to integrate the "Mountain Turks" in Turkey?

- Jake

If you only spend 20 minutes of the rest of your life on economics, go spend them here.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Thu Jul 24th, 2008 at 03:13:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]
In terms of changing lifestyle, I think these settlements by royal edict were much more successful. In terms of integration, not.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Thu Jul 24th, 2008 at 04:50:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The royal edicts here forbade nomadic travel, not just ways of dressing and speaking. That was the first 'wave' of settlement (because it wasn't and couldn't be enforced 100%). (In an earlier thread, I mentioned that 'Gypsy' is not just a curse word, as there are Roma/Gypsy who use the local equivalents of both and also those who use the local equivalent of Gypsy only and reject "Roma" -- in Hungary, most of the latter descend from an early settlement by a 17th-century Habsburg ruler.)

Probably smaller settlements followed in the 19th century, but what are significant again are the settlements done by the 'communist' regimes. The total assimilation of Gypsies into the supposedly classless workers' society was part of ideology, but in practice, the result was other forms of discrimination: houses would be built for them, but not necessarily of the same quality as for other people, and say all of them in one area on the edge of a village, thus in effect becoming ghettos. Also for ideological reasons, everyone was employed, but most Gypsies would get crap jobs or alibi jobs without real work (and when capitalism came, guess who were fired first and hired last). Then there was a de-facto educational segregation (though far from complete -- I too had Roma classmates), with the still continuing practice of pushing Roma children off into schools for the mentally retarded. Not to speak of heavier-handed policies like re-settlements (say in Chechoslovakia, re-settling Roma from Slovakia into villages from which Sudeten-Germans were chased away), taking children from their parents and such.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Thu Jul 24th, 2008 at 04:49:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]

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