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I'd always understood "Anglo" as short for "Anglo-American" as short for "Reaganite-Thatcherite" as short for "Imperialists and all reactionaries are paper tigers"

If they don't like it in dKos, well, tough. They are all Americans, and even left-wing Americans are convinced that their native country is the soul of star-spangled goodness, sometimes led a little astray in its naive benevolence. They can't tolerate criticism of fundamentals, in whatever form. And dKos is not predominantly left wing.

by PIGL on Thu Jul 17th, 2008 at 05:35:44 AM EST
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For "even left-wing Americans" I meant "even many left-wing Americans"

(ducks)

by PIGL on Thu Jul 17th, 2008 at 05:40:31 AM EST
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I'm going to add two more things.

The first is, I wonder if Jerôme's critique of "the Anglo disease" is even aimed primarily at UK and USA? I think these two countries are essentially immune to effective criticism of the fundamentals of the political and economic system that has evolved in recent decades (the history is surely much longer than that, and in the USA, relates to a long-noted love for the short con). If I were Jerôme, my aim would be to combat the triumphal and relentless drive of the UK and USA to export their corrupt and destructive model to the rest of the world.

The second is, the Province of Ontario announced earlier this week that they will establish protected areas in their northern boreal regions, in the amount of about one-quarter million square kilometers. This is a much bigger deal for me than the collapse of empires or financial houses of cards.

by PIGL on Thu Jul 17th, 2008 at 08:42:05 AM EST
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You asked if I were offended by this.

Well, the first part is not so much offensive as it is frustrating.  My point was, just because people who define themselves against us use this term as some kind of slang they intuitively understand the meaning of, it does not mean that  1) it is linguistically accurate or 2) intuitively understood or accepted by those you are labelling.  I don't even know what "Anglo-American" means.  English American?  White American?  And what does being English, or white have to do with "Imperialists and all reactionaries are paper tigers"?  Why not call it the "Reagan Thatcherite disease?"  Because it is an economics matter at its core.  

You and Jerome both say, if we don't like it tough.  It's not the damned theory I don't like.  It's the label.  It has nothing to with intolerance of criticism.  Is being "Anglo" the criticism hurled at us?  No.  Our system of finance is, and rightly so!  I may be a commie, but even the most jingoistic American today will admit, yes, this economy is totally effed up due to some questionable practices.  But that is precisely  how many people here react when caught in a bit of a muddle.  If an American points out your flawed logic, you can dismiss it as American whining and stubbornness.  I frankly only care because, like everyone here, I'm betting the world would be a better place if people actually listened to Jerome.  And Americans won't listen to him on this topic if he starts off up front by 1) labelling them with bizarre and inaccurate racial lingo from the Middle Ages and 2) saying "tough I don't care if it pisses you off."  Because, uhm, that just normally doesn't work when you are trying to get people to see the light, to listen to you, to join your cause.  Yes, sometimes you will piss off people for the right reasons.  But pissing them off alone is not a signal of success or righteousness.  Just ask all the people GWB has pissed off!!  I think I will call this inability to accept that I am right and you are wrong "European Disease."  Yeah, I know you're Canadian.  But whatev.  Vast generalizations and outdated historical associations are apparently given free reign on this blog nowadays.  Plus, if I'm mad at you, it's my prerogative to call you whatever I want.  

Now, that sounds kind of immature, doesn't it?  Yes, it does.  Because it is.  Honestly, no one appreciates J more than I.  No one wants people to listen to him more than I.  Plus, I am personally indebted to him for any number of things, making me the last person who should go off on him.  But we can all love Jerome and help him fight the good fight and retain our freedom to correct him in those very rare instances when he is not entirely correct or not making the best use of an opportunity.  It's ok. If no one were willing to criticize him, he'd end up like Stalin, mad with power.  

And really, you just can't go around saying things like "They are all Americans, and even left-wing Americans are convinced that their native country is the soul of star-spangled goodness, sometimes led a little astray in its naive benevolence. They can't tolerate criticism of fundamentals, in whatever form." and expect anyone in my country to listen to you.  The minute people make generalizations like that about Russia, I smell a fish.  Even if they are true.  Because it's a lazy thinking borne of frustration.  Its propaganda that fills up the holes in its logic with demonization of "them."  We all think we're so immune to these things.  That's America's Achilles heel - thinking we are immune to the problems that beset other nations, even when we display the same poor judgement.  But no one is.  If you think just because you are at ET or progressive or well-educated or even just right, you are immune, you are wrong.  No one is right about everything.  And no one is wrong about everything.  This urge to see everything in black and white/ us and them/ good and bad ... it gets on my last nerve.


"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.

by poemless on Thu Jul 17th, 2008 at 06:37:37 PM EST
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I agree with many of your points. However, what I do not understand, why your reaction NOW? Jérôme started using The Anglo Disease' in June 2007, and since then in a series of almost 50 diaries. I think at that point of time your comment would have been very helpful and the term could have been easily changed. But now as even newspapers are starting to use this term it is difficult and to me doesn't make much sense to change an more or less established term, which for many now is associated with the economic problems in the English speaking world.
by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Jul 18th, 2008 at 02:17:06 AM EST
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P.S. sorry, not all of those almost 50 Diaries were writen by Jérôme.
by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Jul 18th, 2008 at 02:28:34 AM EST
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Sorry, I originally brought it up in an open thread: Because I just now realized why I was turned off by the term.  I'm slow.  

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.
by poemless on Fri Jul 18th, 2008 at 10:39:26 AM EST
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