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Well, the military-industrial complex most probably played a role. But I think that one thing that is frequently overlooked in popular discussions of the collapse of the Soviet system is the surveillance-industrial sector. You can't employ a full 10 % of your population to do nothing but watch over the other 90 % and make sure they don't do anything too dissenting. Even quite apart from the chilling effect it has on society in general, the sheer up-front cost of running such a system must have been a huge drain on the economy of those countries.

- Jake

Ceterum censeo Chicago esse delendam

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Wed Jul 16th, 2008 at 01:48:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I suggest you do a calculation to see what amount of the US economy is currently devoted to fear mongering and security theater.

For example, every office building in NYC now has one or more guards, a CCTV system and who knows what else to monitor those going in and out.

When I worked in Manhattan you walked into the building, looked up your party on the wall listing and took the elevator. Nothing untoward happened.

Then there are all the concrete bunkers placed in front of building to prevent enemy tanks (I guess) from crashing through the front door - how much do they cost?

How about the armed soldiers in the train stations and the cops doing random bag checks of law abiding citizens taking the subway. Who is paying their salaries? (Oh, I forgot, we are.)

Shall I go on: Homeland Security, 15 spy agencies (that we know of), Total Information Awareness, the "green zone" at how many billions.

Police states are inefficient as you indicate, but not just because of the useless labor being expended (exactly what do hedge fund managers contribute to productivity), but because a cowed populace is unproductive and lacks entrepreneurial spirit.

Frightened leaders make for a frightened populace and there are none more scared than those who have been demolishing the US constitution.

Policies not Politics
---- Daily Landscape

by rdf (robert.feinman@gmail.com) on Wed Jul 16th, 2008 at 03:11:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Police states are inefficient as you indicate, but not just because of the useless labor being expended (exactly what do hedge fund managers contribute to productivity), but because a cowed populace is unproductive and lacks entrepreneurial spirit.

Uh, China.

The USSR wasn't helped by a complete lack of competitive industries outside of its military hardware, leading to an over-reliance on commodity exports and their (then) tendency to fluctuate wildly in value.

Redstar recently claimed that the US also lacks competitive industries outside of the military, although he's at least half wrong (it along with the vampiric financial sector does create a massive talent drain from the point of view of productive industries).

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Thu Jul 17th, 2008 at 04:21:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Not exactly. I claimed that the US lacked competitive industries outside of military applications (not jusst hardware) and intellectual property which is prone to pirating and therefore quite dependant upon the sorts of multilateral cooperation the US is very poor at.

"C'est un scandale !"
by redstar on Thu Jul 17th, 2008 at 10:23:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The USSR's policies prevented them from implementing 1960's / 1970's technology - needing three signatures to use a copy machine, for example. Most of the world, outside of the poorest nations, have navigated their way to acceptance of all technology on offer to the current day, but are currently teetering on the edge as the internet is a natural enemy of any organized government and our entrenched scarcity based industries. I say "teetering" because it is trivial to take down the internet or control it centrally but at the same time is integral to our economies in its current open form.

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Thu Jul 17th, 2008 at 04:30:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]

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