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Um, the argument is the whole of Chapter 3...
The modern large Western corporation and the modern apparatus of socialist planning are variant accommodations to the same need.
The need is to protect the complex organization necessary to function in modern industrial production from the vagaries of the market where price and demand fluctuations (even whether there is demand for the product in the first place) can be ruinous given the capital investments and the lead times involved in bringing a (new) product to the market.

Apart from standarisation, industrial business engages in vertical integration, long-term contracts, and monopoly/monopsony in order to eliminate market risk. In the 40 years since Galbrath wrote his book, hedging risk using financial instruments has become a fourth strategy.

It is open to every free-born man to dislike this accommodation.
Liberals of all stripes (social liberals or marketistas) will dislike the power of the large business and its control of the market and especially its control of demand which seeks to manipulate the consumer.
But he must direct his attack to the cause.
But the large planning unit and its control over prices and demand is not a cause but an effect. The cause is industrial civilisation and the constraints that places on the production units within it.
He must not ask that jet aircraft, nuclear power plants or even the modern automobile in its modern volume be produced by firms that are subject to unfixed prices and unmanaged demand.
Specifically, one cannot expect the kind of petty merchant or manufacturer that existed at the time of Adam Smith to produce a modern car, build and operate a nuclear power plant, or build a passenger aircraft.
He must ask, as just noted, that they not be produced.
If one wants to bring about an old-fashioned liberal economic utopia, it will not be industrialised.

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Jul 16th, 2008 at 10:21:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Why haven't all those thinkers made it to econ 101?

It's starting to feel like the university is a nice complement to self-schooling.

If I understand correctly, he argues that market power is necessary to protect the organization that produces complex goods. But that does not reduce the overall level of uncertainty, only transfers it to someone else?

Or, requires that individuals behave according to the logic of that organization, not to their own?

Rien n'est gratuit en ce bas monde. Tout s'expie, le bien comme le mal, se paie tot ou tard. Le bien c'est beaucoup plus cher, forcement. Celine

by UnEstranAvecVueSurMer (holopherne ahem gmail) on Wed Jul 16th, 2008 at 11:20:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]
My take is Galbraith is noting a standard observation of Complexity Theory:

Any complex system exists in, and only due to, a meta-system that, to a greater or lesser degree, guides, confines, and controls it.

A doo run-run-run, a doo run-run

by ATinNM on Wed Jul 16th, 2008 at 02:17:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It's starting to feel like the university is a nice complement to self-schooling.

That is especially true for those of us who end up working in areas other than those for which we trained.  And the percentage of such individuals increases with age.

If sanity be culturally normative, then by the norms of this culture I claim insanity.

by ARGeezer (argeezer a in a circle yahoo dot com) on Thu Jul 17th, 2008 at 01:51:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm 22, don't you think that's a bit too early ?

Rien n'est gratuit en ce bas monde. Tout s'expie, le bien comme le mal, se paie tot ou tard. Le bien c'est beaucoup plus cher, forcement. Celine
by UnEstranAvecVueSurMer (holopherne ahem gmail) on Thu Jul 17th, 2008 at 05:24:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The good thing about university is that studying for your degree leaves you time for self-schooling.

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Jul 17th, 2008 at 05:27:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]
 And the good thing about being a mature student is you already know more than your lecturers (apart from some very specialised knowledge) I think I learned more in the bar and the library than in lectures.

Life should consist in at least fifty percent pure waste of time, and the rest doing what you please.
by ceebs (bunchofwankers (at) gmail (dot) com) on Thu Jul 17th, 2008 at 05:46:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Hopefully.  But my own first job after obtaining an M.A. in History was as the assistant donut baker at the Eagle Bakery in Tucson.  There were extenuating circumstances such as uncertainty about the draft, a small local market and lack of money to finance a move to a larger market. The up side was that I learned about craft breads, as all bakers got to take home their choice of a loaf of bread each night.  Some nights, if the twist khalas were out of the oven long enough and early enough we would take one, buy a quarter pound of butter and take it to the Green Dolphin, where it quickly would be pulled apart, slathered with butter and consumed, washed down with pitchers of 3.2 beer.

If sanity be culturally normative, then by the norms of this culture I claim insanity.
by ARGeezer (argeezer a in a circle yahoo dot com) on Thu Jul 17th, 2008 at 11:10:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Because if they were included students might get the idea that the exercise of economic power is an important subject of study for economics. Instead you get a "nice" collection of toy models where economic power is defined away axiomatically.

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Jul 17th, 2008 at 05:16:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The politics of equity vs efficiency are much easier to handle for any professor than the politics of power.

By «defined away axiomatically», are you referring to the models that assume no market power and similar cost structures?

Rien n'est gratuit en ce bas monde. Tout s'expie, le bien comme le mal, se paie tot ou tard. Le bien c'est beaucoup plus cher, forcement. Celine

by UnEstranAvecVueSurMer (holopherne ahem gmail) on Thu Jul 17th, 2008 at 05:23:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I should quote Galbraith more extensively, he's very entertining on this particular point. I dont think much has changed since the 60's - if anything there's been a backlash.

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Jul 17th, 2008 at 05:30:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]
... not for the position of the majority of the profession, but rather for their much weaker ability to deny legitimacy to dissent.

Utsukushikereba sore de ii
by BruceMcF (agila61 at netscape dot net) on Sun Jul 20th, 2008 at 01:10:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Especially for economists, for whom venturing into such waters can be career suicide.  Anthropology departments will offer courses such as "The Anthropology of Wealth and Power." There are a number of quite readable texts targeted at such an audience.

If sanity be culturally normative, then by the norms of this culture I claim insanity.
by ARGeezer (argeezer a in a circle yahoo dot com) on Thu Jul 17th, 2008 at 11:16:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]
... for teaching about the majority of the economy that does not lie within the narrow confines of the grammar and syntax of the traditional marginalist language of economics.


Utsukushikereba sore de ii
by BruceMcF (agila61 at netscape dot net) on Sun Jul 20th, 2008 at 01:12:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
... were herded out of Econ 101 ... indeed, herded out of almost all the upper division undergraduate courses as well.


Utsukushikereba sore de ii
by BruceMcF (agila61 at netscape dot net) on Sun Jul 20th, 2008 at 01:07:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]
That is sometimes referred to as "market discipline." J.A. Hobson published a very cogent critique almost exactly a century ago: Imperialism, a Study.  Full text is available on line, if the site is not radioactive for your employer.  My preferred set of excerpts is found in D.C. Heath's Problems in European Civilization series: The "New Imperialism" H. M. Wright, ed. 1961. He clearly describes how academia is brought to heel.  It has only gotten worse since then.

It is also discussed in A Survey of Global Political Economy 2007 by Kees van der Pijl, also available online in full text. It might be a less radio-active site, and has the advantage of being more recent.

I found Hobson to be very clear.  In the summer of 1965 I was the graduate reader for a senior level course in 20th Century Britain and The "New Imperialism" was one of the assigned texts.  The professor asked who in the class understood and could explain Hobson's thesis.  Mine was the only hand to go up.  I always waited to see if someone else could answer before raising my own hand, to be fair.  But it was summer school, a lot of the class was just there to get what they hoped would be three easy credits and were business, or other liberal arts majors, not history majors.


If sanity be culturally normative, then by the norms of this culture I claim insanity.

by ARGeezer (argeezer a in a circle yahoo dot com) on Sun Jul 20th, 2008 at 02:56:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Um, the argument is the whole of Chapter 3...

Oh.

Maybe I shouldn't feel bad about the fact that I couldn't follow it from a five-line quote of the conclusions, then :-P

Thanks for the summary.

- Jake

Ceterum censeo Chicago esse delendam

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Wed Jul 16th, 2008 at 11:25:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The success of the neo-con or anglo disease agenda is in large part due to the fact that they have reduced economic complexities to simplistic market based truisms that appeal to the small businessman, self -employed, and social conservatives who know nothing of business but which have in reality got nothing to do with how big business and big Government has to operate.  The trick is to expect Government to behave as if it could be guided by the values and mindsets of a small business whilst big business rapidly globalises and removes itself from all effective democratic control.

"It's a mystery to me - the game commences, For the usual fee - plus expenses, Confidential information - it's in my diary..."
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot dotty communists) on Wed Jul 16th, 2008 at 11:34:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]

The trick is to expect Government to behave as if it could be guided by the values and mindsets of a small business...

Rather, that is the trick that campaign managers and RW politicos use to get themselves elected.  It appeals directly to the personal experiences and prejudices of small businessmen and those who identify with them.  They see no contradiction arising from the totally different behavior of large corporations, which routinely flout all of the cautionary strictures of Adam Smith, as they see large corporations as simply being more successful versions of small businesses, and thus aspirational for them and worthy of defense, even when that puts small businesses out of business.

People such as Karl Rove certainly see this and don't give a damn about the contradictions.  Probably most of the adherents to that point of view are less clear on these issues.  They just "know" that it is important for "their guys" to win so that the country will be run according to "correct" values. For them it is a problem of preserving their identity regardless of the consequences, those consequences that are now besetting us all.

If sanity be culturally normative, then by the norms of this culture I claim insanity.

by ARGeezer (argeezer a in a circle yahoo dot com) on Wed Jul 16th, 2008 at 01:28:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Agreed

"It's a mystery to me - the game commences, For the usual fee - plus expenses, Confidential information - it's in my diary..."
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot dotty communists) on Wed Jul 16th, 2008 at 03:23:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]
JKG:
If one wants to bring about an old-fashioned liberal economic utopia, it will not be industrialised.

Nice outline, but wrong conclusion. Cathedrals, pyramids and other giant projects show that industrial-scale outcomes are possible with other social models.

The fallacy is to assume that it's top-down centralised micromanaged planning, or nothing - in other words that we've exhausted every possible cultural approach to managing big resource extraction and processing projects.

I don't think this is true. In fact the problem now is to invent new kinds of social organisation which mix the sustainability of subsistence cultures with the dynamism and inventiveness of explorer cultures.

I'm not saying it's easy, but I'm also not convinced it's impossible.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Wed Jul 16th, 2008 at 12:02:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]
If one wants to bring about an old-fashioned liberal economic utopia, it will not be industrialised.

No, it's the right conclusion, because, you have to remember that when he was writing "liberal" meant "Manchester liberal" and thus the quote could be rewritten from modern understanding as:

If one wants to bring about that cliche of a glibertarian economic utopia, it will not be industrialised.
by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Wed Jul 16th, 2008 at 02:08:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Er - haven't we had the industrialised cliche glibertarian utopia for the last couple of decades?

We still have some taxes and a few social services, but it hasn't exactly been happy time for neo-Keynesians.

It's true that glibertarian utopias have a habit of imploding, but I'm not sure he's suggesting that.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Wed Jul 16th, 2008 at 02:53:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]
ThatBritGuy:
Er - haven't we had the industrialised cliche glibertarian utopia for the last couple of decades?

Only in Somalia...

ThatBritGuy:

It's true that glibertarian utopias have a habit of imploding, but I'm not sure he's suggesting that.

I know it seems odd now, but back when he was writing, "liberal" really did mean something different, much closer to glibertarian than it does now.

by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Wed Jul 16th, 2008 at 07:57:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Has Somalia industrialised while no one was looking?

Metatone:

I know it seems odd now, but back when he was writing, "liberal" really did mean something different, much closer to glibertarian than it does now.

After Reagonomics?

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Thu Jul 17th, 2008 at 07:17:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]
wasnt it Clinton who bombed the Somalis last attempt at industialisation?

Life should consist in at least fifty percent pure waste of time, and the rest doing what you please.
by ceebs (bunchofwankers (at) gmail (dot) com) on Thu Jul 17th, 2008 at 07:21:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]
No, the book is originally written in the 60's - it's only the new introduction that is after Reaganomics. And that may have been written by his son James Galbraith.

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Jul 17th, 2008 at 07:38:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]
JKG wrote his book in 1964, with a last revision in 1978. However, the book has an introduction written after the introduction of Reaganomics, and it is clear that the glibartarian nonsense he attributed to "a few romantics" has been the stuff of policy for the past nearly 25 years - with known results.

It's amazing, really, because in the 1960's Galbraith was ready to pronounce neoclassical marginalist economics dead.

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Jul 17th, 2008 at 05:10:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Precisely.

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Jul 17th, 2008 at 05:07:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]
ThatBritGuy:

The fallacy is to assume that it's top-down centralised micromanaged planning, or nothing - in other words that we've exhausted every possible cultural approach to managing big resource extraction and processing projects.

I don't think this is true. In fact the problem now is to invent new kinds of social organisation which mix the sustainability of subsistence cultures with the dynamism and inventiveness of explorer cultures.

I'm not saying it's easy, but I'm also not convinced it's impossible.

I would be very interested in reading about any possible models you might have in mind.

... all progress depends on the unreasonable mensch.
(apologies to G.B. Shaw)

by marco (cowannar at gmail punkt com) on Wed Jul 16th, 2008 at 11:51:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Nice outline, but wrong conclusion. Cathedrals, pyramids and other giant projects show that industrial-scale outcomes are possible with other social models.

The fallacy is to assume that it's top-down centralised micromanaged planning, or nothing - in other words that we've exhausted every possible cultural approach to managing big resource extraction and processing projects.

Micromanaged they may not have been, but the Pyramids were not built by the invisible hand of the market guiding large numbers of independent small productive units. And if the Cathedrals were built "by committee" so to speak it is more because of the dismal surplus capture rate that the system had in medieval Europe, so projects outlived their originators.

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Jul 17th, 2008 at 05:13:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Cathedrals were built by committee because they were the projects of cities rather than individuals, too... And at the time cities were relatively independent.

Auferre, trucidare, rapere, falsis nominibus imperium; atque, ubi solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant.
by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Thu Jul 17th, 2008 at 07:08:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm not convinced that anything has ever been built by the invisible hand of the market guiding large numbers of small productive units. 'The market' is a stand-in for real or wannabe aristocracy, and always has been.

That doesn't mean large structures can't evolve without markets or centralised planning. Historic non-Western cities prove that point - cities may be supported by trade, but they're not necessarily defined by it.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Thu Jul 17th, 2008 at 07:28:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, that's the point, isn't it? We have our political leadership running around gutting the industrial base by trying to force it to function as a collection of small competing units. The only ones who benefit, temporarily, are the financiers. After a while, the economy crashes and they lose out too, except that tere is no industrial base left. <shudder>

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Jul 17th, 2008 at 07:41:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Small competing units are fine for small competing products. When there's a low cost of entry, very interesting things can happen - but they won't be big interesting things.

I think the push away from industrialisation is more complicated. It's a mixture of opportunism, social snobbery, class war and a desire to emasculate unions, and an understanding that capital is much better at making more capital when it doesn't have to deal with real things in the real world.

But there's a more basic metaphor. The only real currencies in economics are physical commodities and trust.

If you build a hyper-competitive system where no one can trust anyone else, sooner or later - completely unexpectedly - trust evaporates, and the system implodes in a spectacular display of fiscal paranoia.

If you're running out of physical commodities at the same time - that's also not a good thing.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Thu Jul 17th, 2008 at 08:20:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]
This phrase strikes me as key ...
The fallacy is to assume that it's top-down centralised micromanaged planning, or nothing - in other words that we've exhausted every possible cultural approach to managing big resource extraction and processing projects.

Just so, what I'd like to see is a more distributive model for energy generation (which makes sense if you need multiple 'small' green generators --solar/wind--as opposed to one big ole nuclear reactor or coal burning / oil burning power plant). In fact, moving to a more conceptual plane, the distributive model is part and parcel of what drives the open source movement. A great essay that delineates some of this is the Cathedral & the Bazaar, documenting, among other things the 'subversive' Linux author's working method.
The lead graph is a pretty compelling argument for a completely different approach to 'centralized' software development.

Linus Torvalds's style of development--release early and often, delegate everything you can, be open to the point of promiscuity--came as a surprise. No quiet, reverent cathedral-building here--rather, the Linux community seemed to resemble a great babbling bazaar of differing agendas and approaches (aptly symbolized by the Linux archive sites, who'd take submissions from anyone) out of which a coherent and stable system could seemingly emerge only by a succession of miracles.

And yet, it obviously has worked. "The power of many", is the short hand I'll use to describe this 'miracle'. Much is fleshed out in the essay, but I wonder if such a de-centralized approach can't also work within the context of the 'meat' world to use Gibson's phrasing... energy production, for example, with solar panels on residential rooftops flowing back into a distributing grid, or agri-business with local farms providing much of the seasonal food stuff for a given community...? Even in terms of so called 'big ticket' items, I think there are way to get around the centralized industry mindset: How about cars as an example?

I wanted to find a low priced green e-vehicle that would get me from a-b with a decent speed and decent range and wouldn't cost me a fortune.

Zap car came immediately to mind, but after doing some research and test driving I wasn't happy: 11,000 MSRP for a car that advertises 45 mph, but barely runs 35 with the wind at it's back, and on steep uphill grades was even slower. Worse the range couldn't even let my wife do a roundtrip to our daughter's highschool and back (about 60 miles). It was a deal breaker. So I started hunting around. What I found was a veritable ecosystem of garage mechanics building their own e-vehicles by gutting light weight Hondas or VW bugs and filling them with standard batteries.  For about $8000 I could find a ride that was notably cheaper, faster and further than the Zap vehicle.  Or I could build my own.  Once the basic engineering principles are mastered and the parts obtained (and most good junk yards and auto supply stores would have what you need) an e-vehicle can be converted or built from scratch for easily $10,000. One that is cheaper than Zap, goes further and is faster. So why does the centralized manufacturer suffer by comparison to the home hobbyist?

A couple of explanations are possible. A big one: the main cost of the vehicles is offset initially by effectively reusing a chassis. Labor and other overhead is absorbed by the person working on his own conversion or doing a kit. A lot of the same thing goes on in the bazaar model of software development.  The labor turns out to be something of a labor of love; not many millions were initially made by the intellectual tinkerers who put together Linux; and yet, in terms of value, it's pretty staggering to think of the value of the Linux OS now. What corporations want to do is lock in that future value by centralizing the development of their 'product'--in point of fact the ONLY way they can think of safeguarding their 'product' is through a centralized process. That's ultimately why Linus's methodology was subversive.  He didn't bother to safeguard anything. He left it wide open. I think we can make that same shift in terms of agri-business and energy production. Perhaps even big ticket items like home building (earth ships) or autos (re-vamped e-vehicles), but it will take the 'risk' of foregoing a guaranteed profit. And a lot of tinkering by cooperative communities, no doubt :-)

by delicatemonster (delicatemons@delicatemonster.com) on Mon Jul 21st, 2008 at 11:49:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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