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I suppose you can get a research post in the US speaking German?

When locusts move on, they leave nothing behind
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Wed Jul 2nd, 2008 at 03:04:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]
No, but everyone speaks some English.

And, in fact, sometimes the standard of English of foreign PhD students and postdocs in US universities is appalling. This leads to regrettably xenophobic attitudes by American undergraduates, but one has to understand their frustration at having barely intelligible teaching assistants.

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Jul 2nd, 2008 at 03:06:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]
My point is simply that it's tiresome to hear that having to speak French (or Spanish, or Swedish) is a "linguistic problem", while having to speak English isn't.

Otherwise, Martin is quite right that languages are part of the European problem, in research or in other fields. Not insuperable, however.

When locusts move on, they leave nothing behind

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Wed Jul 2nd, 2008 at 04:08:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]
That's because English is the lingua franca.

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Jul 2nd, 2008 at 05:31:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]
You trying to dis English, now?

... {muttering} I got your lingwa franca right here ...


Utsukushikereba sore de ii

by BruceMcF (agila61 at netscape dot net) on Wed Jul 2nd, 2008 at 06:07:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I agree! I wonder if the 'language problem' is not often an excuse for not changing the situation.

I live in a country that has 4 official languages.
Traditions, customs, culture and language in Switzerland

No less than four languages are spoken in Switzerland: German, French, Italian and Rhaeto-Romanic. Swiss people working in tourism usually speak English as well.

The government websites are usually in German, French, Italian, Rumantsch and English.

There is very little discussion about the language situation, it just is.

I school we usually start out with out mother tongue, then the first foreign language is one of the official languages and the second foreign language (often one of choice) is mostly English. The only question that is discussed here is at what age a foreign language should be learned in school. However, this does not mean all Swiss are well versed in those foreign laguages. :-)

So, maybe it is time for the EU contries to integrate foreign (especially other EU languages) into their educational system.

T

by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Jul 3rd, 2008 at 03:17:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]
In recent years, there were efforts made in Germany to start foreign languages earlier than previously. This may help, that more people learn more than one foreign language quite good, although this induces other problems - for example further discrimination of people who either are simply untalented or have problems with the way languages are teached at school.

However in the meantime we have to live with people who can speak only one foreign language well (and maybe Latin, what usually doesn't help too much). And the way to do this is using English. I don't like that, I think English is a very ugly language. But even here on ET, you probably will exclude a majority by using any other language.


Gemach, gemach

by Martin (weiser.mensch(at)googlemail.com) on Thu Jul 3rd, 2008 at 07:53:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]
In France too, there's an effort to start English several years earlier. But there's no serious effort to train teachers or recruit native speakers, so the effect is likely to be mitigated.

We have had battles on ET over language. One idea was to create a multi-lingual site, or a cluster of blogs in different languages, but these schemes come up against major software problems (not feasible with Scoop) and would also create extra workload in terms of admin and translation. Yet using only English probably excludes a majority of Europeans, even though it's the most common second language...

PS: Don't say Latin's no use, or PerClupi will deal with you ;-)

When locusts move on, they leave nothing behind

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Thu Jul 3rd, 2008 at 08:43:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Clearly German should be next:

(source: Eurobarometer 243: Europeans and Their Languages - last debated here)

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Jul 3rd, 2008 at 08:54:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]
In Saarland and the border region of BW, the goal is even to start with French, however, lack of well trained teachers is here a problem, too.

Gemach, gemach
by Martin (weiser.mensch(at)googlemail.com) on Thu Jul 3rd, 2008 at 09:46:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Actually, glad you mentioned this because it immediately came to mind.  Even when I was in school oh so many years ago, quite a few profs were non-native English speakers. Mostly Asians visitors taught at that time (as now), especially in the hard sciences and mathematics.  I lived in an experimental dorm that was comprised of half science and engineering and half social science majors with some seeking advanced degrees.  I recall vividly the dorm conversations about how difficult it was to understand some of the profs.  Not so much xenophobia at that time but just that it made learning that much more difficult as in "I can't understand a word he says."  I suspect the numbers of "guest" assistant professors and teaching assistants is much greater now given the fewer numbers of American degree seekers in certain fields.

I can swear there ain't no heaven but I pray there ain't no hell. _ Blood Sweat & Tears
by Gringo (stargazing camel at aoldotcom) on Thu Jul 3rd, 2008 at 10:32:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It's not necessarily xenophobic. I remember an organic chemistry class as an undergrad with three TA's, all foreigners. One was Panamanian Chinese - excellent English, one was Chinese Chinese with decent English (strong accent, mistakes, but perfectly functional), and a third Chinese guy with basically no English. The only way of communicating with him was to rely on translators - either Chinese-American students who spoke Mandarin or the other Chinese TA (The Panamanian guy didn't speak any Chinese) We were fine with the first two, but complained amongst our selves constantly about the third - it really isn't too much to ask that ones teachers be able to speak with you.
by MarekNYC on Sat Jul 5th, 2008 at 10:26:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]
No, not necessarily, but there was a xenophobic cartoon published in an undergraduate magazine when I was doing my PhD, motivated by this issue.

The real issue is that being a graduate teaching assistant in the US is a form of cheap immigrant labour. Now that the post-9/11 security situation has all but ground the "brain drain" to a halt, and even reversed it, the situation might be different.

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Jul 7th, 2008 at 05:31:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]
No, but as you can't get a research post in Germany without speaking English (but without speaking German, at least in science), and the US is perfectly happy when people speak even only English, that's not a problem.

Gemach, gemach
by Martin (weiser.mensch(at)googlemail.com) on Wed Jul 2nd, 2008 at 03:07:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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