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That's the whole point, isn't it? If everybody expects the price to go up(for very logical reasons on the ground), then market "speculators" help the market reflect that by bringing the price up to where people expect to see it. What's the problem with that?

But there's the small fact that a majority of speculative positions lately have been betting on oil prices going down, not up.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Wed Jul 23rd, 2008 at 08:11:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Does the direction of speculation make a difference? I get the impression from Migeru that it's the simple fact of speculation that lubricates the market and makes it move faster.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Wed Jul 23rd, 2008 at 09:06:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Liquidity lubricates markets and make them reach their expected targets faster. Thus information embedded in the market is all the more complete that you have more and faster speculation.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes
by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Wed Jul 23rd, 2008 at 09:22:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]
What I'm saying would lead to the conclusion that the "equilibrium level" is higher than the current price - otherwise you don't have upwards pressure.

Whether it is a good or a bad thing that the current price level was reached ahead of time compared to how it would have been with lower market volatility, I don't know.

If you believe that we need a strong price signal for demand destruction and that reductions in demand are overdue, then it's a good thing.

However, if prices overshoot and collapse because the long-term cost of electricity from alternative sources has been exceeded by a long shot, then it might be a bad thing like what happened in the 1980's.

An optimal rate of increase of the price might be as high as possible but such that there is no overshoot and collapse of the price. Speculation probably makes the rate much faster than optimal and guarantees a collapse after new energy infrastructure is developed and the new energy production floods the market (again, a 1980's oil industry scenario) - give it 5 years.

A vivid image of what should exist acts as a surrogate for reality. Pursuit of the image then prevents pursuit of the reality -- John K. Galbraith

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Jul 23rd, 2008 at 09:22:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]
But remember, future pricing estimates (= WAG) of commodities fluctuate around an equilibrium.  The Attractor is the "True" - whatever that means - price, the Attraction is the movement (derivative) toward that price, and the Repellation is the movement (derivative) away from that price.  All of this occurs in an Information Environment, itself a mixture of accurate-True/inaccurate-False (note the 4 dimensions!) assessments by the Actors.  

Using this (simple) Model it is easy to see the effect on pricing of speculation is dependent, in some cases, independent in others.  The magnitude of the effect is asymmetrical; always Complex and, under certain conditions, Chaotic.

by ATinNM on Wed Jul 23rd, 2008 at 12:43:24 PM EST
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