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where's the substance?

We know Europeans are susceptible to spin too: we elected Sarkozy and Berlusconi. Still, spin is spin. And Bush is still not impeached.

The point is that electing Obama does not solve any problems I agree that it stops making them worse, and maybe that's the best one can hope. But the problems are still going to be there. And some WILL be worse: 150,000 soldiers in Afghanistan, yey!

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Thu Jul 24th, 2008 at 05:45:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I get what you are saying and largely agree.  But electing Obama will solve some problems.  Just not all of them, and just not overnight.  

Or rather, there are problems.  In order for them to be solved, America has to be part of the solution.  America isn't going to be part of the solution until Obama is in office.  Who knows if the problems will be solved.  But the first step to solving them is getting Bush and his lackey McCain out of the damn room so the adults can talk.  

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.

by poemless on Thu Jul 24th, 2008 at 06:03:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm reasonably positive about Obama being the end of "being part of the problem"; I just have no clue about his being part of the solution.

I like Van jones' take that we should not too much on one individual but should count on ourselves.

I'm part of the solution too.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Thu Jul 24th, 2008 at 06:18:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm reasonably positive about Obama being the end of "being part of the problem"; I just have no clue about his being part of the solution.

I'm really not convinced of this at all.

First, I think that Obama is going to fold like a chair if he is elected.

Second, I think that if you look at his economic advisers, he's full of half ass solutions that aren't going to work.

Voting for Obama is like taking an aspirin for cancer.  It might make you feel better, but it's not going to do a think about the disease that's killing you.

And America's got economic cancer, and it's going to take tougher medicine than Obama's serving up to deal with this.

Domestically, he does nothing to address the healthcare crisis, and he's basically Clintonian in his economic orientation.

As for globalization, he's bought into the market will make everything better talk.  When the truth is that until neo-liberal globalization is backed up by something like the (albeit very basic) social contract offered in the acquis communitaire the net effect of further globalization is going tio be the erosion of existing rules and the unleashing of naked capitalism.

And I'll give my consent to any government that does not deny a man a living wage-Billy Bragg

by ManfromMiddletown (manfrommiddletown at lycos dot com) on Thu Jul 24th, 2008 at 09:24:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Being critical of Obama today makes you anti-American (you know, of the "you're never happy woth anything we do" kind) so I was just trying to be somewhat positive.

Stopping digging is a good thing, but when you're in such a deep hole, I agree it's not quite enough. I guess we'll all have t osee what comes next (actually, I'm curious as to what will come before the election, on the energy and economic fronts: we're in a lull this week, but I don't expect things to last like this for very long).

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Fri Jul 25th, 2008 at 12:58:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Well color me anti-American, amigo.

I have never found you to be less than polite.

I think that Obama is go to lose.  This was a golden opportunity for change, and the chattering classes got fixated on Iraq.  It's as though for many of them (and I'm sure that you met this contingent at the big orange place) that there was no Left before the Iraq War.

At the very least, Obama's electoral collapse will be unique in that he will demonstrate an entirely new way to lose, by picking up states like Virginia and Colorado, in which economic issues like trade and healthcare matter less politically than social issues. And losing a gigantic swath of the Midwest (Michigan, Ohio, Pennsylvania) where factory jobs have gone poof.

The first block of states is worth about a third of the electoral votes of the latter group.

Again, on the positive side, it will be an opportunity for European broadcasters to try to explain what the Electoral College is.

C'est la vie.

And I'll give my consent to any government that does not deny a man a living wage-Billy Bragg

by ManfromMiddletown (manfrommiddletown at lycos dot com) on Fri Jul 25th, 2008 at 01:25:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Voting for Obama is like taking an aspirin for cancer.  

That's a keeper. (To be applied not just for Obama.)

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Fri Jul 25th, 2008 at 05:40:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]
And Bush is still not impeached.

First hearings on impeachment start in about 7 hours. You can watch them live. Unfortunately, it's actually a non-impeachment impeachment hearing, and Conyers has apparently been threatening to shut it down if witnesses accuse Bush of an impeachable offense. From Indybay

Apparently the rules of Congress are designed to allow impeachable offenses to be discussed only in impeachment hearings. Apparently this didn't occur to Chairman Conyers when he decided to hold a non-impeachment impeachment hearing. As a result, his hearing may be quickly shut down, and he will have a choice of holding a real impeachment hearing, resigning, or dropping the pretense that he intends to resist Cheney and Bush in any way whatsoever.
by gk (g k quattro due due sette "at" gmail.com) on Fri Jul 25th, 2008 at 03:48:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]

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