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Avedon Carol has a suggestion about FISA

I will still call my reps from time to time and ask why they voted for indefensible bills and against good ones, but if they tell me lies about how they were protecting me, I will routinely say, "But since everyone already knows that's a lie, what's the real reason?"

In fact, I think we should have a postcard campaign in which we write to our reps and say something similar. "Dear ___ ____, When I called your office and asked why you supported the FISA bill, I was told that we need it to protect us and the new version protects our civil liberties. Since everyone knows that this is a lie, please tell me the real reason you supported it." (Copy it to your nearest local and national papers.) They won't answer, but they should be told they're not fooling anyone



keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Wed Jul 23rd, 2008 at 02:08:44 PM EST
 I was at a meeting with a representative from the Obama campaign the day after the FISA vote.  He showed up apparently under the impression he was on friendly territory, and was swiftly thrown to the wolves.  Yet, when asked why Obama voted for FISA, we didn't get "we need it to protect us and the new version protects our civil liberties."  I almost wish we had.  At least that would show they had enough balls to lie to us straight to our faces.  No, we got a run around amounting to, "this issue is far too complex for you to appreciate, so we're not going to even attempt to explain our rationale to you."  I can assure you that the people in that room had a far better understanding of the contents and consequences of bills than most representatives do.  It was so insulting.  I'd rather be lied to than taken for ignorant yahoos.

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.
by poemless on Wed Jul 23rd, 2008 at 02:18:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]
wow, that is insulting.  

I don't want to be lied to OR taken as an ignorant yahoo.  I want a real answer to the questions and concerns I have about SPECIFIC portions of that bill.  If I can take the time to try to understand a piece of legislation they should take the time to come up with answers.  

But that's not the way it works.  Instead we are insulted and/or lied to.

by Maryb2004 on Wed Jul 23rd, 2008 at 03:00:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]
In your situation I might have been tempted to go on dKos and make a noise about being taken for a yahoo. You already have one president who shows you contempt, you don't need another. That guy needed firing cos he's not doing Obama any good with that attitude

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Wed Jul 23rd, 2008 at 05:30:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm afraid that, short of a violent coup, not much can be done about our options at this point.  Given the choice between a candidate who thinks I'm a yahoo and a candidate who is an actually yahoo, I chose the former.  Just to mix things up after 8 years of President Ignorant Yahoo.  

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.
by poemless on Wed Jul 23rd, 2008 at 05:35:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I thought you liked Obama, being from Chicago and all that?

A vivid image of what should exist acts as a surrogate for reality. Pursuit of the image then prevents pursuit of the reality -- John K. Galbraith
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Jul 24th, 2008 at 03:07:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Reminds me of one of the events that started my own hard left turn. We'd set up a student's meeting and invited two political parties to send representatives. Well, the right-winger was a no-show, so they sent us some ignorant twit from their youth organisation, who hadn't even read up on the proposal he was supposed to be defending (and said as much - in so many words - at the start of the show).

Long story short, this dumbass is asked a pointed question or two about why the Fogh II regime wants to cut the stipends for students virtually in half and (almost) replace the cutbacks with "incentives programs" (which is, of course, newspeak for favouring the already privileged). This supercilious little bizniz school student replies something along the lines of "we're just moving a few commas, is it really something to get so worked up about?" and goes back to talking about something that wasn't on the agenda.

Colour me pissed off.

- Jake

If you only spend 20 minutes of the rest of your life on economics, go spend them here.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Thu Jul 24th, 2008 at 02:13:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]
That's just sad.

A vivid image of what should exist acts as a surrogate for reality. Pursuit of the image then prevents pursuit of the reality -- John K. Galbraith
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Jul 24th, 2008 at 03:07:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

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