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All of this Obama in Berlin hubbub has got me thinking.  In addition to general wide-spread Obamamania in the states, the African American community is deeply invested in his campaign.  To the extent that anyone in Europe would care who the US President is, how big of a deal is Obama's candidacy among African and other "minority" Europeans?  When I first thought about it, I paused, because the experience of Africans in say France, isn't exactly the same as that of African Americans.  But then, Obama's own experience is probably closer to that of African immigrants to Europe than that of most African Americans, who can hardly be described as immigrants.  So, do the non-white non-ruling class folks in Europe appear particularly interested in Obama?  

When I was watching Obama and Karzai and Malaki, I was caught off guard by my reaction.  I know skin color really means nothing.  But that the leader-to-be of this huge bullying imperialist hegemonic country will look a lot more like the people said country is used to pushing around or marginalizing or enslaving gives me some kind of weird hope.  The clash of civilizations narrative, the colonialism narrative persists in part due to perceptions (even if actions are at the heart of it).  We don't LOOK alike.  The whole stupid "white Christain civilized man v. dark-skinned exotic savage" narrative is problematic when the one doing the pillaging is dark-skinned and thought by some to be Muslim.  I'm in no way suggesting that an Obama presidency would put an end to American hegemony.  But that it might drive us to look more deeply to explain its nature since it will be more difficult to categorize it as the status quo in a world where the white people have all the power and the dark skinned people are under their thumbs.  And the image we will have may not be reflective of reality - even if Obama is elected, the status quo won't change overnight or even maybe at all.  But don't underestimate the power of images.  It is very easy to got the "us/them" route when people look different.  White terrorists or a group of white kids roaming the streets don't scare many white people in the same way dark-skinned people doing the exact same thing does.  So what happens when the person you idolize looks more like your enemy than you, or when the person you demonize looks more like you than your enemy?  You can't then just let the imagery do all the work.  You have to begin to think of things more critically.  I hope I'm making sense.  Kcurie knows what I'm saying.

The symbolic imagery that connotes all kinds of historical injustice and division will dissipate.  A lot of Americans have complained (I don't think there will be much more after this trip) that they just struggle to "see" Obama as President.  There's nothing to reference for "young black man as US President." A paradigm shift is occurring the US.  I wonder if it's also being experienced abroad as a result of Obama's candidacy.

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.

by poemless on Thu Jul 24th, 2008 at 01:09:05 PM EST
in my 2 minutes internet reprieve is that people here were rooting more for Obama than Hillary. I've read reports and impressions from Kenya that people are positively buzzed about Obama.

That Obama is pitted against the Bush-guy probably gives a considerable edge and overlap in perceptions, though. I've actually met a Bush fan recently, but it was the only one in 1.5 years.

Personal hunch: Obama as president can serve as another stepping stone to better self-confidence for Africans.

by Nomad on Thu Jul 24th, 2008 at 01:29:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I think it's hard to get attitudes to race in the US from this side. I can completely 'see' Obama as president. I don't think he'll be the president people want him to be, but the seeing part isn't a problem.

I have no idea what black culture thinks of him elsewhere. I suppose to be honest, I don't see him as culturally very black. He wears an expensive suit. He wears a tie. He speaks in a certain way and has certain ideas. He's not so different to all of the other men in suits and ties around Washington who think and speak in a certain way.

I don't really get the tokenism behind the Clinton and Obama campaigns because canned narratives frighten and depress me.

Being black or a woman or gay or white or male doesn't inherently make you a certain kind of person. People behave how they behave - anyone can be generous, and anyone can be exploitative. Certain castes get more play than others, but tokenism always seems more about getting caste membership to be more permeable than about getting rid of the castes altogether.

Obama is in the political class, and that's how he appears to me. His heritage gives him an angle with a certain kind of leverage from a certain kind of narrative. But that doesn't mean the narrative is true - only that some people might want it to be.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Thu Jul 24th, 2008 at 02:07:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I think you maybe didn't read my comment?  Or entirely misunderstood it.

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.
by poemless on Thu Jul 24th, 2008 at 02:11:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It's odd for me, because I feel the same as you, but the racial thing still means something to me.  I guess, having grown up still dealing with the remnants of the Old South, I can't help but look at Obama and think, "We'll you motherfuckers into dust," when thinking of the Reps.  But, at the same time, I recognize that Obama's not some great departure from the past.  It's difficult to properly explain, emotionally.  But it's a very emotional fight for guys like me.  I want to beat these asshole badly. I've got something to prove.  Obama v McCain is obviously a proxy war for many of us in the South, and I really like to win that fight.

Hope that makes sense to at least some extent.

Conservatives want live babies so they can raise them to be dead soldiers. - George Carlin

by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Thu Jul 24th, 2008 at 09:45:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]
So very many typos in that, but they're pretty easy to fill in, I think.  Drew no drinky so much.

Conservatives want live babies so they can raise them to be dead soldiers. - George Carlin
by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Thu Jul 24th, 2008 at 10:55:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The SPIEGEL photos I linked below show a lot of black fans - but it is hard to tell whether they are Americans or not.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Thu Jul 24th, 2008 at 02:17:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes, I was looking at them (from a link in a dkos diary) & that's what got me thinking!  

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.
by poemless on Thu Jul 24th, 2008 at 02:19:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Looking at the Diary on Kos about the big Berlin party much of the attitude doea appear to be "OH MY GOD they're waving American flags, they do love us"

but if you are going to have a diary called They're waving American flags... then it would be better to have a picture with more flags in as your first major graphic in the story. Its wielder looks rather lonely in that crowd.

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.

by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Thu Jul 24th, 2008 at 05:22:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Bernhard of Moon of Alabama estimated that one quarter of the crowd were Americans.

Then again, there is also the story that Obama requested a ban on placards and such.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Thu Jul 24th, 2008 at 06:15:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]
BTW, they have the McCain man in the BBC's photos of the event.

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.
by poemless on Thu Jul 24th, 2008 at 04:37:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Link?

Better yet, would you post it in the Salon?

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Thu Jul 24th, 2008 at 05:19:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The reactions I've heard split roughly into camps:

  1. There's definitely a significant number who really believe that it can make a big difference, although as much to perceptions about race generally as to US policy. The US is the big kahuna still and if it can be led by a non-white, maybe it changes the status of non-whites everywhere.

  2. There are some who really believe Obama will make a big difference to US policy towards various non-white countries and see this as more of an impact than the symbolic side.

  3. Some are sort of hopeful that it can be a real policy change, but worry either that "he won't be allowed to win" or "something Kennedy like will happen if he does win."
by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Thu Jul 24th, 2008 at 03:22:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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