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Challenging post on DKos today by a Mr johnnygunn

The author considers the oil price of 140$ as a result of a bubble and predicts a slow down to 100-80$/bbl in the near future, due to a decline in demand as a result of the current oil price, and as new capacity would come on line (with some delay due to the time needed for investments to be finalized). As the price is set (according to this author) by the marginal demand/supply price, he assumes that a small decrease in demand could trigger a major decrease in price.
He compares also the price curves to some previous price bubbles.

This is only a very short summary of the article, so please don't snap at me, but I would welcom a return on the article.

There's also a special mention to Jérôme in the comments.

by Xavier in Paris on Thu Jul 24th, 2008 at 10:12:41 AM EST
Sounds within the bounds of possibility: $80 is the figure I would have picked out of the air as well.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Thu Jul 24th, 2008 at 10:44:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]
US$80 oil is already a disaster for the oil-based economy as a long-term price. And it's going to rise from there ...
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Thu Jul 24th, 2008 at 11:46:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]
At least until Bush renews his determination to go to war with Iran, or if Mr. "bomb, bomb, bomb Iran" assumes the US presidency:

Of all the steps U.S. President George W. Bush has undertaken to solve his country's energy crisis, the rapprochement with Iran has emerged as the most effective of all. At a cost of only one airline ticket for William J. Burns, the U.S. State Department's third-ranking official, the administration in Washington achieved an almost-immediate 12-percent drop in oil prices.


"Beware of the man who does not talk, and the dog that does not bark." Cheyenne
by maracatu on Thu Jul 24th, 2008 at 11:26:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]
that demand destruction in the US means demand destruction worldwide.

It's fun to see the "oil is a bubble" crow after the most recent price drops. It's just the 7th or so drop of that magnitude in the past year, and each time they said the bubble was over. I sense desperation...

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (jeromeguillet@yahoo.fr) on Thu Jul 24th, 2008 at 11:32:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]
And I sense confirmation bias.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Thu Jul 24th, 2008 at 11:38:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]
the bubblists or the anti-bubblists?

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes
by Jerome a Paris (jeromeguillet@yahoo.fr) on Thu Jul 24th, 2008 at 12:01:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Both.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Thu Jul 24th, 2008 at 12:02:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]
when the facts have consistently been on your side?

Or are you saying I've just been lucky?

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (jeromeguillet@yahoo.fr) on Thu Jul 24th, 2008 at 12:13:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]
No: past performance is not a predictor of future performance.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Thu Jul 24th, 2008 at 12:15:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]
of economics but not of physics.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes
by Jerome a Paris (jeromeguillet@yahoo.fr) on Thu Jul 24th, 2008 at 12:40:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]
take care that he claims to have posted the article before the actual drop in prices.
by Xavier in Paris on Thu Jul 24th, 2008 at 05:37:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The facts are on the side of the boomers - oil prices have been historically low, so this is a temporary spike. If you look at it that way.

I believe that current prices are probably above medium-term equilibrium  - due to overshoot and inelasticity - prices, but by how much is an open question. I wouldn't be surprised to see $80 again for a while at all. I wouldn't be madly surprised to see $200 either.  I would be surprised to see $20 again.

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Thu Jul 24th, 2008 at 12:23:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]
"boomers" => "bubblists"
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Thu Jul 24th, 2008 at 12:25:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm on the anti-bubblist side.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes
by Jerome a Paris (jeromeguillet@yahoo.fr) on Thu Jul 24th, 2008 at 12:41:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]
probably better stay away from the champagne region if you're wearing the t-shirt then.

Life should consist in at least fifty percent pure waste of time, and the rest doing what you please.
by ceebs (bunchofwankers (at) gmail (dot) com) on Thu Jul 24th, 2008 at 12:45:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Elasticity is low both today an tomorrow. If we adjust to price by increasing fuel efficiency of vehicle, we only change level of consumption, not our ability to respond rapidly to price changes.

Rien n'est gratuit en ce bas monde. Tout s'expie, le bien comme le mal, se paie tot ou tard. Le bien c'est beaucoup plus cher, forcement. Celine
by UnEstranAvecVueSurMer (holopherne ahem gmail) on Thu Jul 24th, 2008 at 01:05:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Anyone who wants to bet real money that prices will be down to $80 a year from now stands to make an instant fortune over the next 12 months.

I think it's an unusually opaque market with quite a bit going on out of sight, so usual rules may not apply.

I would expect $80 if Iraqi production ramped up to pre-1990 levels, or the Falkland oil fields turn out to be substantial and not an investment trap, or if the US economy implodes in a spectacular 1929 kind of a way.

Iraq may be up to pre-1990 levels by 2010 or maybe 2012. The Falkland field is trading well as a speculation, but the rumours have been around for a decade and a half and there's no substantial output yet. The state of the US economy a year from now is anyone's guess.

China and India continue to grow and China continues to subsidise consumption, I think all we'll see is a move from Western use to Chinese and Indian use. So I'd be very surprised by $80. I'd also be surprised by $200. But a steady run at $120 and upwards doesn't seem so impossible.

I can imagine $100 at a stretch, but I'd guess that's at the lower end of likely.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Thu Jul 24th, 2008 at 01:52:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Colman:
The facts are ... spike. If you look at it that way.

I think you should say: "The fact is that, if you look at it that way, it's a spike".

(Proposition N°2: "The fact is that, if you look at it another way, it's not a spike")

When locusts move on, they leave nothing behind

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Thu Jul 24th, 2008 at 04:13:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yup.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Thu Jul 24th, 2008 at 04:13:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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