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and another idea: if developed nations are really interested in getting China to reduce energy consumption and carbon emissions, they could pressure their governments to prohibit companies from conducting operations in and with China until China's energy consumption and carbon emissions decrease to "acceptable" levels.  that should concentrate some minds in Beijing.  (it would also risk infuriating a lot of them as well, but at least countries complaining about China on such issues could not be accused of not putting their money where their mouths are.)

but wouldn't that hurt the economies of those developed countries whose companies are doing business with/in China?  sure.  but how can you ask China to put the environment and resource conservation before the economy if you are not willing to do so yourself?

Cynicism is intellectual treason.

by marco (cowannar at gmail punkt com) on Sun Jul 27th, 2008 at 08:15:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]
We should include taxes on imported goods reflecting the quantity of pollution and carbon emissions embedded in such imports. That would force everybody to put a price on these. After all, China's pollution is to a large extent an "outsourcing" of ours, as they manufacture the good we no longer do, but that we still buy.

Their "prosperity" is to a large extent created by their non accounting of such externalities, and it is not very real (and the same goes for ours, given that we still don't pay for that pollution ourselves). In other words, the bill will come due whether they like it or not.

If the carbon price is increased throughout the world, then China's real competitive advantage should not be endangered - unless that advantage is just their willin gness to poison their own citizens in the name of growth.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Sun Jul 27th, 2008 at 09:43:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Jerome a Paris:
We should include taxes on imported goods reflecting the quantity of pollution and carbon emissions embedded in such imports.

I was under the impression that China had enough coal to fuel double-digit growth for plenty long enough to lift the entire country to "developed world" status.

But this article, Richard Heinberg's MuseLetter: Coal in China, if I read it right, says that China may hit peak coal in about 20 years or sooner.

In its conclusion a familiar line of argument/persuasion to get the Chinese to rein in coal consumption/carbon emissions can be discerned:  proactively self-induce the pain now in a controlled fashion in order to avoid the uncontrolled crash of running into peak coal:

Richard Heinberg's MuseLetter: Coal in China | Global Public Media

If and when China ceases to have enough new energy to support continued economic growth, there are likely to be unpleasant consequences for the nation's stability. If such consequences are to be averted, the country's leadership must find ways to rein in economic growth while reducing internal social and political tensions, meanwhile investing enormous sums in non-fossil energy sources. A serious attempt to reduce greenhouse gas emissions would entail an identical prescription. It is a tall order by any standard, but serious contemplation of the alternative--which, in the worst instance, could amount to social, economic, and environmental collapse--should be bracing enough to motivate heroic efforts.

In other words, if the Chinese government imposes significant taxes on coal consumption, it will force the Chinese to make adjustments in a gradual steady manner: essentially the same strategy that we have been talking about for dealing with peak oil in the U.S., but which the U.S. did not implement.

Cynicism is intellectual treason.

by marco (cowannar at gmail punkt com) on Sun Jul 27th, 2008 at 10:27:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]

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