European Tribune

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Obama ahead in PA, OH and FL.

Must be good news for John McCain.

Off to play in the traffic.

Meantime, Bloomberg sez recession started in Q4 2007 (via Calculated Risk:

July 31 (Bloomberg) -- The U.S. economy may have slipped into a recession in the last three months of 2007 as consumer spending slowed more than previously estimated and the housing slump worsened, revised government figures indicated.

The world's largest economy contracted at a 0.2 percent annual pace in the fourth quarter of last year compared with a previously reported 0.6 percent gain, the Commerce Department said today in Washington. Growth for the period from 2005 through 2007 was also trimmed.

The revisions now reinforce measures such as employment and production that already signaled the economy was shrinking. The National Bureau of Economic Research, the Cambridge, Massachusetts-based arbiter of economic cycles, defines a recession as a ``significant'' decrease in activity over a sustained period of time. The declines would be visible in GDP, payrolls, production, sales and incomes.

``We're in a recession,'' Allen Sinai, chief economist at Decision Economics Inc. in New York, said in a Bloomberg Television interview. ``It's going to widen, it's going to deepen.''



WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!
by Drew J Jones (blahblahblah@blahblahblah.com) on Thu Jul 31st, 2008 at 11:25:00 AM EST
the changes are quite amazing:

               2007  (prev.)   2006   (prev.)  2005  (prev.)
GDB real        2,0   2,2      2,8     2,9     2,9    3,1

Quarterly
            T1   (prev.) T2  (prev.)  T3 (prev.)  T4  (prev.)
2007        0,1    0,6   4,8    3,8   4,8   4,9  -0,2    0,6
2006        4,8    4,8   2,7    2,4   0,8   1,1   1,5    2,1
2005        3,0    3,1   2,6    2,8   3,8   4,5   1,3    1,2

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (jeromeguillet@yahoo.fr) on Thu Jul 31st, 2008 at 11:29:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Someone's gotta be screwing with the numbers there or just incompetent.  GDP figures shouldn't swing wildly like that.

WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!
by Drew J Jones (blahblahblah@blahblahblah.com) on Thu Jul 31st, 2008 at 11:33:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Anything bad is possible.
by Magnifico on Thu Jul 31st, 2008 at 11:58:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The consecrated narrative is that the US is struggling with lower growth, while Europe is in imminent danger of recession. So don't hesitate too long on the choice between screwing with the numbers and incompetence.

When locusts move on, they leave nothing behind
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Thu Jul 31st, 2008 at 12:02:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Is this so incredible? I think not. Remember the Euro is nearly 100% up to its lowest point about 10 years ago. Trade balance is probably a backing for the US economy, and stalling for Europe.
That people don't feel how good the economy is, is no wonder, as their feeling is dominated by consumption, not production. As Americans have lived for years beyond their means, now it feels like pain, when they start to live within their means, even if their means go a bit up.

Gemach, gemach
by Martin (weiser.mensch(at)googlemail.com) on Thu Jul 31st, 2008 at 12:23:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The Bloomberg report and the figures Jérôme cites are not talking about feelings, or people's perception of the economy, but of a downward revision of growth numbers over a dozen quarters.

When locusts move on, they leave nothing behind
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Thu Jul 31st, 2008 at 01:02:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]
They have revised 3 year old quarterly GDP numbers!!?
Ils sont fous, ces Americains!

However, Europe is in imminant danger of a recession, when taking 2 consecutive quarters of negative growth as measure. I'm almost sure, Q2 was negative in Europe.
While the US could have had a recession in q4,07/q1,08 and being already in recovery - or of course in the middle of a long recession, we may get that information probably, uhmm, 2011.

Gemach, gemach

by Martin (weiser.mensch(at)googlemail.com) on Thu Jul 31st, 2008 at 02:34:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]
My point was about the generally received media narrative, that avoids saying "recession" about the US, but doesn't shrink from it re Europe.

When locusts move on, they leave nothing behind
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Thu Jul 31st, 2008 at 03:49:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I've commented here on the US cooking economic numbers before, though i haven't attempted a compilation. But just a few days ago the latest job numbers were released, showing an increase in jobs (Bloomberg article).  Little noticed was a sentence revising the previous month downwards.  the market reacted with gusto, but i couldn't help thinking it was but another example of statistical manipulation.  swear i've seen that often.

Skennah Kowa
by Crazy Horse on Thu Jul 31st, 2008 at 12:31:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]
There have been periodic wry comments in Barron's about the "adjustments" that are made to the data.  No helpful adjustment is ever abandoned just because the reason for its existence is no longer valid.  Bruce could comment more specifically, should he so choose.

If sanity be culturally normative, then by the norms of this culture I claim insanity.
by ARGeezer (argeezer a in a circle yahoo dot com) on Thu Jul 31st, 2008 at 02:42:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Why ? it's a derivative, after all...

Auferre, trucidare, rapere, falsis nominibus imperium; atque, ubi solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant.
by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Thu Jul 31st, 2008 at 12:18:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Apparently some derivatives are more derivative than others.
by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Thu Jul 31st, 2008 at 02:59:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Jerome, why don't the quarterly numbers you give don't average close to the yearly numbers you cite

Quarterly
            Q1    Q2    Q3    Q4    -O-
2007        0,1   4,8   4,8  -0,2   2.4 (?!)
EuroZ       3.3   2.6   2.7   2.2   2.7

2006        4,8   2,7   0,8   1,5   2.5 (?!)
EuroZ       2.6   3.0   2.9   3.3   3.0

2005        3,0   2,6   3,8   1,3   2.7 (?!)
EuroZ       1.5   1.6   1.9   2.1   1.8

Both regions average in this last 3 years to 2.5% groth within rounding errors.

EuroZ from ECB:
Euro area 13 (fixed composition) - Gross domestic product at market price - Constant prices - ECU/euro - Seasonally adjusted, not working day adjusted, Annual percentage change

Gemach, gemach

by Martin (weiser.mensch(at)googlemail.com) on Thu Jul 31st, 2008 at 02:58:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Compare that story to this story from the Washington Post: U.S. Economic Growth Improves Over First Quarter.

The U.S. economy grew at a healthy pace in the second quarter, the government said today, despite being buffeted by a financial crisis, a deep housing slump, high fuel prices and a weak job market.

Gross domestic product rose at a 1.9 percent inflation-adjusted annual rate in the April through June period, far above what forecasters would have expected just a few months ago. It was boosted by strong exports resulting from the lower value of the dollar and rising consumer spending by Americans, who benefited from government stimulus checks.

The surge is working!

by Magnifico on Thu Jul 31st, 2008 at 12:12:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Exactly the kind of narrative I referred to above. The ship of the US economy sails into strong headwinds, but battles through. It doesn't matter if the 1.9% number is later revised, what matters is the effect it has now.

Just don't say the "R" word with regard to the US, that's all.

When locusts move on, they leave nothing behind

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Thu Jul 31st, 2008 at 12:58:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]
... the unemployment rate is coming out shortly, and we get to see whether that is a slowdown in the cost-push inflation because price changes in gasoline and diesel have slowed, or an actual increase in output.

Get the good news out first, so if its bad news coming, rather than bringing the picture into focus, it can be covered as "on the one hand, on the other hand".


Utsukushikereba sore de ii

by BruceMcF (agila61 at netscape dot net) on Thu Jul 31st, 2008 at 09:48:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]
America's economy | Still on the right road | Economist.com
America's economy has steered clear of recession so far. How long can it keep growing?

THE American economy has often defied predictions of its demise. It has done so again. Official figures published on Thursday July 31st show that America's GDP rose at an annualised rate of 1.9% in the second quarter. This would a respectable enough growth rate at the best of times. That this was achieved despite the considerable handicaps of a badly damaged banking system, a big jump in oil prices and the ongoing housing bust, makes it remarkable.

Revisions to earlier quarters took some of the shine of the news. Government statisticians now reckon that the economy shrank in the final three months of last year: the annualised change to GDP was revised from 0.6% to -0.2%. But growth picked up slightly to 0.9% in the first quarter, so on this reading at least, America seems to have just steered clear of a technical recession--two consecutive quarters of contraction.

by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Jul 31st, 2008 at 03:59:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]
And being on the wrong side of the numbers McCain has gone negative.  This is the one card he has left and the one the GOP has used in the last two elections to eke out a win.

The polls in the next few weeks are going to be really interesting.  

A doo run-run-run, a doo run-run

by ATinNM on Thu Jul 31st, 2008 at 09:11:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]
State polls have done as I expected, with Obama coming around with very respectable showings.  FiveThirtyEight's got him at 307 EVs now.  Single digits in Texas and Kentucky, although St John's above 50% in both.  16-point ball game in Idaho, which sounds bad, until you remember that Kerry lost it by a bajillion.

Tie in Montana.  Leads for O in PA, OH and FL.  I'll certainly take it.

WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!

by Drew J Jones (blahblahblah@blahblahblah.com) on Fri Aug 1st, 2008 at 12:51:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Exactly why McCain had to do something.  

A doo run-run-run, a doo run-run
by ATinNM on Fri Aug 1st, 2008 at 10:00:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]

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