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THIS, THAT, AND THE OTHER
by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Jul 8th, 2008 at 02:32:39 PM EST
Large solar energy array set for GM in Spain - International Herald Tribune

A Michigan company, Energy Conversion Devices, plans to announce Tuesday that it is providing the solar electric system for what it says will be the world's largest rooftop array, on a General Motors assembly plant in Zaragoza, Spain.

The project will be 12 megawatts, a huge number in a field where most arrays are measured in kilowatts, units 1,000 times smaller.

The project will use solar devices manufactured in rolls, like carpet runners. Installation will be completed this fall, according to the company, which is based in Rochester Hills, Michigan Energy Conversion will supply the equipment to Veolia Environment and Clairvoyant Energy, which will lease the rooftop space from GM and own and operate the installation, which will be two million square feet.

Spain has become a center of solar installations because it offers generous subsidies, 0.42 euro a kilowatt-hour (66 cents). That is about five times the average cost of a kilowatt hour to residential customers in the United States. The Spanish government is considering a reduction in the subsidy for installations after September.

by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Jul 8th, 2008 at 02:35:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Can our Spanish contingent dig up recent (as in: 2007 or newer) statistics of Spanish PV installations?

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Tue Jul 8th, 2008 at 04:01:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]
...because my source on this has data only until the end of 2006, when total installations in Spain were only 118MW (still enough for fourth place globally, behind Germany, Japan and the USA).

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Tue Jul 8th, 2008 at 04:09:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Some data straddling 2006 and 2007

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes
by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Tue Jul 8th, 2008 at 04:24:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Eco-Economy Indicators: SOLAR POWER - Solar Cell Production Jumps 50 Percent in 2007
By the end of 2008, cumulative PV installations in Spain are expected to exceed 800 megawatts, twice its original 2010 goal.

I also found a vague referece in another of my sources [pdf!] about quadrupling capacity in Spain in 2007:

In Spain, existing uncertainty on future legislative developments fostered unsustainable growth of 300% in 2007.


*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Tue Jul 8th, 2008 at 04:41:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I quoted a source giving a 408% increase in 2007. That's either quintupling, or a mistake.

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Jul 8th, 2008 at 05:00:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Or an independent calculation.

It is difficult to keep track of the multitudes of small projects. Some try to do it via official permissions, some via distributors, some via sellers, some via producers. A year ago, industry and politics agreed in Germany to put in place some registering system to be up to date (after just the ministry estimation for 2005 has been corrected upwards by something like 100% cumulatively over a course of two years), I don't know what became of that.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Tue Jul 8th, 2008 at 05:12:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I can't find any statistics on solar photovoltaic power from Spain's ministry of Industry. It may be that there are no megawatt-range PV arrays in the country, and also that the aggregate production is not large enough to warrant inclusion in the statistics...

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Jul 8th, 2008 at 04:27:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Solar photovoltaic is 0.1% of Spain's primary electricity production.

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Jul 8th, 2008 at 04:31:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]
57 GWh in 2004 (<0.1%)
609 GWh projected for 2010 (0.2%)

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Jul 8th, 2008 at 04:34:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]
In the source I gave upthread, but here is a direct link to the historical Excel table, you can check all annual numbers until 2006.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Tue Jul 8th, 2008 at 04:52:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Moving on to industry sites, the press and the blogs...
  • 120MW installed in 2006 (60MW new), 400 MW planned up to 2010, target likely to be met in 2008 (2006 source)
  • a blog comment from May 2008:
    Evolution of installed capacity in Spain (Megawatt):
    year new total
    2005  22    44
    2006  97   141
    2007 380   540
    
    ... For installed capacity in 2007 data are available to november. December data estimated. Source: CNE
    Market forecasts for 2010 (Gigawatt):
    new   total source
    1.400 2.561 B. Sarasin
    1.264 2.672 Landesbank Baden-Wuerttemberg (LBBW)
    0.350 1.540 EuPD Research (worst case)
    0.700 2.090 EuPD Research (best case)
    
  • CincoDias (financial newspaper, 30 June 2008)
    In the last year [2007] 435 MW of photovoltaic [capacity] were installed in Spain. This made the country the second market in the world with an 18% share, second only to Germany, according to figures gathered by the ASIF.

    This data point also implies a 408% increase in installed capacity, with a cumulative production [capacity] of 595 MW. The number of instalations rose to 18,248.

  • A story from today about GM's 10MW rooftop installation in Zaragoza
This PDF contains a nice map of Spain's solar resource. There are large areas with more than 5 KWh/m2 per day average resource.

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Jul 8th, 2008 at 04:58:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Thanks. Meanwhile I found an even higher number (in line with the 800MW total installations quoted by Jérôme's source) in yet another source (which does statistics differently) which I forgot to check...

Marketbuzz 2008: Annual World Solar PV Market Report

Germany's PV market reached 1,328 MW in 2007 and now accounts for 47% of the world market. Spain soared by over 480% to 640 MW, while the United States increased by 57% to 220 MW. It became the world's fourth largest market behind Japan, once the world leader, which declined 23% to 230 MW.



*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Tue Jul 8th, 2008 at 05:08:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Why did you ask for the data? Planning a diary?

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Jul 9th, 2008 at 03:32:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]
No, but because I was wondering at this in the article:

Spain has become a center of solar installations

I somehow missed this, but as is clear from the data we dug up, this is a fairly recent development.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Wed Jul 9th, 2008 at 03:44:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Add to that the huge quantities of solar thermal being developed in the south of spain, which is about the same again. I'm doing research for a wind company looking to get into solar and my database has close to a Gigawatt of solar thermal due to come into play in the next couple of years in Spain, including Andasol 1 and 2, Solnova 1-3, Solar Tres and PS20. Most of them are either parabolic trough or power tower plants. (both types use mirrors to reflect heat from the sun onto a heat transfer fluid that then boils steam to drive a turbine and make electricity. The market has soared in the last few years because designs using molten salt as the fluid have come through. Molten salt can be stored easily in its hotter form and this can extend the power generation capacity of a CSP (concentrated solar thermal power) plant to close to 24 hours in a desert location.

There's a lot of CSP going up in the Mojave desert in california too. Expect both CSP and concentrated photovoltaics to explode onto the scene in 2009-11. We project that both will be cheaper than traditional PV sooner rather than later.

by darrkespur on Wed Jul 9th, 2008 at 05:08:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The thing with solar thermal is that it's still in the pilot phase with direct development funds, so those visions of reduced prices and rapid future development in the future are only visions so far. But it would be nice if it came to be, would be good for desert areas.

I note both the Mojave desert and most Spanish projects use the technology of four German companies: Flabeg (producer of the parabolic mirrors), Schott (manufacturer of the receivers), NOVATEC BioSol (complete supplier of Fresnel lens technology plants) and Solar Millennium (project developer).

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Wed Jul 9th, 2008 at 05:44:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Plus a lot of the photovoltaic price estimates are based on the current polysilicon shortages which are starting to come to a close as the silicon manufacturers see their investments over the last few years start to produce more capacity. (Silicon wafer production is projected to triple in the next few years)

Having said that, although you're right about the funding for CSP, the sheer size of a lot of these plants (at least 25 in the 50-500MW region scheduled to be up in the next two-three years) means that they will become a major share of the renewable market a lot quicker than PV or Wind did, which started with farms of a few MW. The economies of scale for a CSP farm make it a good investment for large utility companies. Water supply and grid connection to suitable desert regions are probably the biggest concerns.

by darrkespur on Wed Jul 9th, 2008 at 06:06:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Note:

  1. I don't like to leave investment to large utility companies. That's a plus for them, as it can facilitate the maintenance of their market share and thus power (not electric, but economic and political) concentration, not for us.

  2. The size of an installation may matter for economies of scale (which don't necessarily exist for PV), but for growth, don't be blinded by plant size: it's total installations that matter. The overwhelming bulk of the more than 1GW installed in Germany last year were rooftop installations, tens of thousands of them.

  3. Do you have a good link listing those 25 plants scheduled to be up in the next two-three years? I would be very grateful!


*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Wed Jul 9th, 2008 at 06:19:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Sure, I can give you a few links. I'm not quite sure what you mean by 'us' though - I'm all in favour of microgeneration but getting utility companies on board is no bad thing in my book - the more clean power, the better. If you can build 200MW of power in one installation versus 200MW over 5 or 10 installations of PV or wind, the investment industry will look more favourably on giving you the money. Thermal through big utility installations in combination with microgeneration and other renewables are all part of the picture.

Abengoa have 280MW planned in Arizona 'Solana' as well as the Solucar platform in spain which has 12MW in operation, 120MW being built and 170MW in development.

100MW is being developed by BrightSource Energy in Ivanpah, California due to commence operations in 2011, with deals for another 800MW in the future.

The European Solar Thermal Electricity Association is projecting 30GW of european CSP by 2020, not including any EU-led North African projects pumped in by high voltage wires.

There's a lot more out there too, Ausra and Solar Millenium

Due to the feed-in tariffs, Spain is the biggest market for CSP but California's tariffs are triggering a lot of investment in the Mojave desert. Solar Millenium estimates 800MW a year in California alone from 2008 onward.

by darrkespur on Wed Jul 9th, 2008 at 07:24:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Thanks for the links! I will read through them.

If you can build 200MW of power in one installation versus 200MW over 5 or 10 installations of PV or wind, the investment industry will look more favourably on giving you the money.

That's an argument to change the rules for the investment industry, not against microgeneration. The point, again, is power: once the large semi-monopolists are back in power on the market, they will again aim at stiffling the 'competition', not at expanding renewables. (This is one of the reasons feed-in tariffs work better than certificates; and that most - but not all - existing quasi-monopolist utilities make little use of, and fight feed-in tariffs tooth-and-nails.) So in the end, I am okay with large utilities taking part in renewables development, but the rules of the game should be set up so that there is a de-facto clear priority for new players entering the 'market'.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Wed Jul 9th, 2008 at 07:36:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The nice thing about the feed-in tariffs is that all the countries that have good tariffs for big projects (like Spain) have even better ones for microgeneration (I think it's about 50 euros a kWh better in spain), so you get to have both. The ideal is obviously to have microgeneration on most rooves that can support them, with big utility projects in wind, solar thermal, CPV, hydro and eventually tidal and wave adding big numbers to the multitude of smaller installations.

My priority is getting the number of megawatts supplying electricity renewably up as fast and effectively as possible. Every possible tech and scale is needed.

by darrkespur on Wed Jul 9th, 2008 at 07:42:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Wind is typically big utility project in the US, but less so in much of the EU (but, well, big utilities are on it just in Spain). Good for farmers. I'm somewhat sceptical of tidal and wave; not because of technology, but total energy harvestable (at least on the shores of the EU). But even if a small part, they can be part of the mix.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Wed Jul 9th, 2008 at 09:12:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]
<after browsing links> Some news I missed!

So the four developers look to have fixed contracts for about 2000 MW, with more vague commitments for thousands more. And I note I also saw that SCHOTT (the maker of receivers) wants to run up production to an impressive 1 GW/year.

That's more than I thought. But say 30 GW of CSP in the EU by 2020 is not beyond the scale of growth shown by wind and PV. (Wind achieved it by 2003, about 10 years after the start of 100-MW-scale growths in EU countries, and wind has a much higher capacity factor; PV is still only around 5 MW in the EU, with rapid growth from around 2003, but at the present rate of growth, 30 MW by 2013 doesn't look unlikely.)

But anyway, hopefully, solar thermal is now going to be the third renewable to mature in the electricity sector. I hope (dry-rock) geothermal will follow soon.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Wed Jul 9th, 2008 at 08:42:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Hey DoDo, you might want to check this assessment by NREL as well. It's nice and concise about the state of CSP:

http://www.nrel.gov/analysis/power_databook/docs/pdf/db_chapter02_csp.pdf

by darrkespur on Wed Jul 9th, 2008 at 11:20:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]
although that one is a bit old nowadays...
by darrkespur on Wed Jul 9th, 2008 at 11:20:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]
UNESCO Celebrates Modernism: Berlin's Social Housing Gets World Heritage Status - International - SPIEGEL ONLINE - News

Berlin exported its modernist aesthetic of the 1920s around the world but its own examples of Bauhaus-style social housing had long gone unrecognized. Until now. On Monday UNESCO gave six properties in Berlin the World Heritage seal of approval.

The 1920s marked Berlin's golden age when it became the creative center of modernism in art, literature and architecture. It is, therefore, fitting that the United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization (UNESCO) has now added six prime examples of modernist architecture in the German capital to its list of World Heritage Sites.

 On Monday the UNESCO committee, meeting in Quebec City, Canada decided to award the World Heritage status to the six housing estates dotted across Berlin (more...). The justification was that these buildings were an "outstanding example of the building reform movement that contributed to improving housing and living conditions for people with low incomes." What made these social housing projects particularly special was that they were designed by the leading architects of the day, including Bauhaus founder Walter Gropius, as well as Bruno Taut and Hans Scharoun.

The estates were built between 1913 and 1934, and include the famous horse-shoe-shaped complex in Britz, the Siemensstadt and White City estates, the Schillerpark settlement and the Falkenberg Garden City, as well as the Carl Legien estate in Berlin's trendy Prenzlauer Berg district.

by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Jul 8th, 2008 at 02:42:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]
deredactie.be - English - Fewer Belgians attending Mass
A study carried out by the Leuven University Centre for Political Science on behalf of the Belgian Conference of Bishops has revealed a big fall in the number of Belgians attending Mass on a regular basis.

According to the study just 7% of us go to Mass every week.
This is down from 11% a decade ago.

The figures also show that just under 57% of new born children were baptised in Catholic churches in 2006.
This is down from 65% in 1998.

However, the most dramatic fall was in the number of church weddings.

Almost half (49%) of couples opted for a church wedding in 1998.
By 2006 this had fallen to just over a quarter (26.5%).

The number of church funerals is also down from 76% in 1998 to 61% in 2006.



The struggle of man against tyranny is the struggle of memory against forgetting.(Kundera)
by Elco B (elcob at scarlet dot be) on Tue Jul 8th, 2008 at 03:58:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Why the big fall in weddings? I'd thunk that due to parents and the atmosphere, church weddings would have a higher incidence than even baptisms.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Tue Jul 8th, 2008 at 04:03:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Belgium has a  very high level of divorses.
So divorsed people often mary a second or more time but the catholic church etc...

The struggle of man against tyranny is the struggle of memory against forgetting.(Kundera)
by Elco B (elcob at scarlet dot be) on Tue Jul 8th, 2008 at 04:13:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Boeing: Boeing Teams With Canadian Firm to Build Heavy-Lift Rotorcraft
The Boeing Company and SkyHook International Inc. today announced a teaming agreement to develop the JHL-40 (Jess Heavy Lifter), a new commercial heavy-lift rotorcraft designed to address the limitations and expense of transporting equipment and materials in remote regions.

Boeing has received the first increment of a multiyear contract from SkyHook to develop the new aircraft.


Ah, this thing will lift 40 tons: something for Jérôme to plant windmills everywhere?      
 


The struggle of man against tyranny is the struggle of memory against forgetting.(Kundera)
by Elco B (elcob at scarlet dot be) on Tue Jul 8th, 2008 at 05:11:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm sceptical. I first read of such plans as a little kid - in old magazines. There was a serious project in Germany attempting to build one, the CargoLifter. It foundered after spending €300 million(!) on the issue of stabilising the craft against wind during loading/unloading. All that remains of the project is a giant hall near Berlin, featured as backdrop in many commercials and films (check on German Wikipedia).

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Tue Jul 8th, 2008 at 05:19:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The artist's impression shows them being used apparently for logging in remote areas.

Progress, we tell you!

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Wed Jul 9th, 2008 at 03:08:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]
With a forty ton lift weight, it could lift one offshore blade.  The lightest offshore nacelle, without rotor attached, is about 160 tons.  Heavy ranges above 240 tons.

"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Anaïs Nin
by Crazy Horse on Wed Jul 9th, 2008 at 10:43:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Independent: Art or abuse? Fury over image of naked girl

According to the editor of Art Monthly, its latest cover is an effort to "restore dignity" to the discourse about the artistic portrayal of children. To its critics, including the Australin (sic) Prime Minister Kevin Rudd, it is "disgusting". What it has achieved is to bring to the boil a simmering row over the difference between art and pornography in a country with a long tradition of censorship.
by Sassafras on Tue Jul 8th, 2008 at 05:37:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The world is obsessed with pre-pubescent sexuality. Put up a mirror.
by de Gondi (publiobestia aaaatttthotmaildaughtusual) on Tue Jul 8th, 2008 at 06:41:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It's a poor cover because that fluffy seascape is just begging to be called an "artistic" pretext, but the depiction of the girl isn't pornographic. How anyone can find it "disgusting" is beyond me.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Wed Jul 9th, 2008 at 03:22:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]
It's a child without any clothes on: that makes it pornographic. All nakedness is sexual. Don't you know anything?
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Wed Jul 9th, 2008 at 03:29:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]
It's disgustingly mediocre art.

Even so - ambiguous pre-teen posing has been a fine art staple for a while. People like Sally Mann have made careers out of it, with the inevitable controversy, etc.

It's one of the few ways you can still successfully shock and horrify the middle classes without being theatrical and ridiculous.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Wed Jul 9th, 2008 at 07:55:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Telegraph: Rubik's Cube used to get on right side of octopuses

The three-dimensional puzzle, which became a huge success in the early 1980s, is among toys being given to the intelligent sea creatures to determine whether they favour a particular tentacle, or if they are octidextrous.
by Sassafras on Tue Jul 8th, 2008 at 05:49:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yay more octopus stories.

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Tue Jul 8th, 2008 at 05:59:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I agree.  Hmmm, if we instituted a daily octopus-story quota, it would at least be more quantifiable than a good news quota.
by the stormy present (stormypresent aaaaaaat gmail etc) on Tue Jul 8th, 2008 at 06:15:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I've been a fan since my mother made me one for my third birthday.


Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Tue Jul 8th, 2008 at 07:10:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Washington Times - Politics, Breaking News, US and World News - "Want some torture with your peanuts?" by Aviation Security

Just when you thought you've heard it all...

A senior government official with the U.S. Department of Homeland Security (DHS) has expressed great interest in a so-called safety bracelet that would serve as a stun device, similar to that of a police Taser®. According to this promotional video found at the Lamperd Less Lethal website, the bracelet would be worn by all airline passengers.

This bracelet would:

* take the place of an airline boarding pass

* contain personal information about the traveler

* be able to monitor the whereabouts of each passenger and his/her luggage

* shock the wearer on command, completely immobilizing him/her for several minutes
 
The Electronic ID Bracelet, as it's referred to as, would be worn by every traveler "until they disembark the flight at their destination."  Yes, you read that correctly. Every airline passenger would be tracked by a government-funded GPS, containing personal, private and confidential information, and that it would shock the customer worse than an electronic dog collar if he/she got out of line?



The struggle of man against tyranny is the struggle of memory against forgetting.(Kundera)
by Elco B (elcob at scarlet dot be) on Tue Jul 8th, 2008 at 06:01:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]
so A terrorist isn't going to cut his off as soon as he boards the plane, and if he's got hacker friends, use them to disable all of the other passengers?

and of course your air marshals will have to wear them so they don't stand out.

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.

by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Tue Jul 8th, 2008 at 06:05:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]
  1. If you as much as touch your bracelet, you get stunned (no matter how many innocent wimps die of a heart attack as a result, we're fighting an eternal war on terra here)
  2. At the first premice of an exploit the bracelet double-stuns
  3. The air marshals wear fake bracelets!

Don't you know anything?
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Wed Jul 9th, 2008 at 03:18:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Right-ho.

I'm going by boat.

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Jul 9th, 2008 at 03:29:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Should be made permanent for everybody. Life would be so much simpler.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes
by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Wed Jul 9th, 2008 at 04:22:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]
BBC NEWS | Technology | Fix found for net security flaw

Computer experts have released software to tackle a security glitch in the internet's addressing system.

The flaw, discovered by accident, would allow criminals to redirect users to fake webpages, even if they typed the correct address into a browser.

Internet giants such as Microsoft are now distributing the security patch.

Security expert Dan Kaminsky said that the case was unprecedented, but added: "People should be concerned but they should not be panicking.



Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Wed Jul 9th, 2008 at 04:02:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]
and it looks like almost everyone with a server  or switch build is vulnerable

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Wed Jul 9th, 2008 at 04:11:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]

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